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Topic Title ok i just bought real tb4


Date Posted: 06/14/2012 07:51 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

its on its way, i will keep you guys updated...based on what i know, this is the only extreme at home treatment that will work...its already proven to work its just that it requires scalp injections...aside from the studies that prove balding follicles lack progenitor cells and those cells are required to continue growth cycles, its also proven to create new follicles and cause existing hair to thicken up and even grow faster. aside from all that, tb4 scalp injections are already being done at at least one clinic in switzerland with positive results...this is the only treatment you are able to do at home that will actually grow real hair, no bullchit minox dependent hair, no slight thickening, but actual terminal hair in bald or near bald areas. im certain this will work, as far as i know noone has tried this outside of a clinic(at least real tb4 ) its gonna be a breath of fresh air to inject an area a couple times a week and have visible growing hair in 30 days or less and be able to keep that hair without having to put a stupid topical on your head twice a day...success has been foud with injections once of twice a week till hair growth is visible and then a single injection once every couple months...after first growth i plan on maintaining with fin once a day and an injection once every 60 days or less...not only is this the only reasonable regiment ( f this crap about spending countless dollars and countless hours eating and rubbing god knows what one your body(like marc, the guy is using every single treatment available and still wants to use more.) with this growth and maintainence will be easy and you will not sacrifice results, i predict my results will be better with fin and tb4 that marc has using every other experimental available. mark this post cause i will take photos and update every week or two.



Date Posted: 06/14/2012 07:52 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

http://www.arsmedical.info/tem...actor-mesotherapy.html



Date Posted: 06/15/2012 04:08 AM
Posted By: Side Show Bob (Accomplished Poster)

Ok...

Where did you purchase this product?

How much and how long does it last?

Does it come with a syringe?

Have you ever tried injecting anything into your scalp?

Because it hurts like a mf'er!

How about some specifics?



Date Posted: 06/15/2012 11:45 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

I would also like to give this a go. I sent you a pm Jimbo but i am sure others would like to hear some specifics too



Date Posted: 06/15/2012 12:29 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

where are you going to buy it?



Date Posted: 06/15/2012 01:10 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

i purchased it from china. its a tiny injection with an insulin syringe into your scalp, it shouldnt hurt much if at all. there are suppliers selling tb4 from the united states but they are mostly those peptide companies that sell to weightlifters and steroid heads and i am guessing that because of that and the cheap price, its most likley bullchit....i think its safe to assume a so called peptide manufacturer who advertises on weight lifting sites is selling snake oil..besides, most things cost less in china not more, so the fact that china is selling it for more than these banner sites , im guessing its real. besides, im buying from a major peptide manufacturer in china with over 1000 employees. no i have not ever injected anything in my head but this substance needs to be injected to work...as far as how long it lasts, im hoping forever with a single injection every few months but i really have no idea....so far the mesotherapy clinics are having success with an injection once a week for 4-6 weeks and then one injection every few months.



Date Posted: 06/15/2012 01:15 PM
Posted By: fuzzy warbles (Regular Poster)

China. Needles.

-------------------------
Read, read, read. Then read some more.



Date Posted: 06/15/2012 02:36 PM
Posted By: FollicleHell (Prolific Poster)

What the heck? Are you serious? I don't trust phone covers from China and here you are injecting yourself with God knows what.......but if it works you're a genius

-------------------------
Proscar 1mg every day

Rogaine Foam(half a cup of foam)

Kirkland Minox(1ml)

Biotin tabs 5mg

Nizoral 2/3 times a week.

Prayers or cursing depending on growth or loss respectively.



Date Posted: 06/15/2012 04:21 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

lol, you do realize that the nizoral , minox and just about everything else you use with the exception of proscar is made in china right? perhaps not mixed in china but the ingredients are made in china(as in the keto from your nizoral ect)



Date Posted: 06/15/2012 04:45 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

that said i have decided to reconsider buying from china due to the fact that im worried about damage during shipping and perhaps the substance going bad.but mainly because i am now not exactly sure what type of tb4 i need....i found a peptide manufacturer in the united states( not those fake weightlifting peptide makers but a real one) they carry tb4 but they carry fragment 16-38 of tb4..it seems all the legit peptide manufacturers are working with tb4 fragment 16-38..i wonder if this is what was used in the hair loss trials or perhaps they have found that this is the "active" fragment so the entire sequence doesnt need to be made? im curious if you guys have a suggestion as to how i can find this out. i dont wanna ask the manufacturer because they wont sell to you if they think you plan on using it(they are supposed to be for research only as they are not insured and licensed for produce products to be used on humans) they really wont even sell to an individual but i have that taken care of.



Date Posted: 06/15/2012 07:39 PM
Posted By: marklc2004 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

its on its way, i will keep you guys updated...based on what i know, this is the only extreme at home treatment that will work...its already proven to work its just that it requires scalp injections...aside from the studies that prove balding follicles lack progenitor cells and those cells are required to continue growth cycles, its also proven to create new follicles and cause existing hair to thicken up and even grow faster. aside from all that, tb4 scalp injections are already being done at at least one clinic in switzerland with positive results...this is the only treatment you are able to do at home that will actually grow real hair, no bullchit minox dependent hair, no slight thickening, but actual terminal hair in bald or near bald areas. im certain this will work, as far as i know noone has tried this outside of a clinic(at least real tb4 ) its gonna be a breath of fresh air to inject an area a couple times a week and have visible growing hair in 30 days or less and be able to keep that hair without having to put a stupid topical on your head twice a day...success has been foud with injections once of twice a week till hair growth is visible and then a single injection once every couple months...after first growth i plan on maintaining with fin once a day and an injection once every 60 days or less...not only is this the only reasonable regiment ( f this crap about spending countless dollars and countless hours eating and rubbing god knows what one your body(like marc, the guy is using every single treatment available and still wants to use more.) with this growth and maintainence will be easy and you will not sacrifice results, i predict my results will be better with fin and tb4 that marc has using every other experimental available. mark this post cause i will take photos and update every week or two.


jimbo my regimen evolves!
My thinking here is we do it like this



Clear DHT( rum or ru, )

Then

-1 Growth Stimulant (NEOSH101)

Few Hours Later

- Another One (BIMATOPROST)

Few Hours Later

- Another One (AHK-CU)

Few Hours Later

- Another One (MINOXIDIL mixed with asc)

Few Hours Later

- Another One (PGD2)
this is what m regimen is going to be



Date Posted: 06/15/2012 10:24 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

neosh is a growth stimulant? I can't find any info on it. What exactly is it?



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 01:45 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Jimbo do you have a link we can follow to the tb4 you found in the united states. If it is more value buying in bulk. We should do a group buy. I take it this needs to be shipped in dry freeze. If it is coming shipped dry frozen from china or anywhere else for that matter I think the substance will be safe enough. Besides it weighs next to nothing



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 05:03 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Ive been reading around the net trying to come up with more info. decided to see if anyone grew hair on the Thymosin Beta (4TB-500) version. According to a guy called the theone here http://www.aussiegymjunkies.com/showthread.php?t=5989 said he got amazing regrowth with the 500 version. Although his supplier in Australia. Im based in the uk so will have to find a legit supplier within Europe. I am going to signup to that site an ask him for more specifics. He mentioned other chemicals MOD-GRF along with GHRP-6 and Hex he is using on that thread but its unclear to me whether he is injecting the other stuff to his scalp or using that for a juicing cycle. Either way i mite give this Thymosin Beta (4TB-500) a try first. If it works then it will be much less expensive than Thymosin Beta alone
Someone else claiming to have gotten hair regrowth here http://www.ironmagazineforums....ry/topic/149479-1.html

Edited: 06/16/2012 at 06:35 AM by summersnow



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 08:34 AM
Posted By: fuzzy warbles (Regular Poster)

See if you can get that Theone guy to join this forum. He tried that 3 months ago.

-------------------------
Read, read, read. Then read some more.



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 08:48 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

ok so my american source is (american peptides) if you just look at the site and how they dont advertise, and how you have to be part of a scientific organization to order and need quite a bit of info to order and how they sell specific fragments of tb4, its clear that they are the real deal(not to mention higher price) now the places selling tb500(i have never seen a single study on that stuff btw) but the places selling tb500 are banner web sites that advertise on weightlifting sites, they ask for no credentials or specifics when ordering and have a shopping cart on their site for christs sake(real research labs dont use shopping carts)....i doubt what they sell is real tb4 and the posts you saw on weightlifting sites were positive but for all we know they could have been planted by those selling tb500, you cant take those seriously...what you should take seriously are the lab studies that prove tb4 grows hair and that tb4 stimulates the progenitor cells that balding follicles are missing...this is the key to reviving dead follicles...now i could be wrong and tb500 might actually work and if it does, that would be a homerun, because its easy to get and its very cheap, after the first month of treatment to get growth started, you can maintain on just 2mg every month `or two and thats like 15 bucks but like most things in life that would be too easy...i imagine that tb500 is bullchit and what we need is real tb4 but i can only find fragment 16-38 being sold and i dont know if that was the fragment used in the hair studies and i have no idea how to find out exactly what was used..i really want to try this but i feel starting with tb500 is a waste of time..perhaps after i get growth started on real stuff i will try and maintain on tb500(then i will know what works for sure) but i dont wanna start on tb500..i hope you or someone else continues to research this because i have hit a dead end and i have ADD and get easily distracted, i just cant seem to find anything that mentions what type of tb4 was used in hair and progenitor cell studies nor can i find a single study on tb500 or anything that explains what tb500 is and how(if at all) its different from tb4 and if its the same is it a fraction of the sequence and if so what fraction? is it a proven active segment and if so what action does it have? this lack of scientific information about tb500 has me thinking is was just some garbage thought up by b.s. peptide makers to sell to weightlifters off the hype generated by the studies into the real tb4...now like i said, i can get real tb4 but they want to know what sequence you want(im at a loss, i originally thought it wasnt considered tb4 unless you have the whole sequence but no one seems to be selling the whole sequence) maybe im not understanding what tb4 16-38 really means? like i said, i could use some help because i really wanna be a guinni pig here and i imagine some of you are at least curious but dont have the balls to try this yourself...i have a medical condition that requires me to give myself injections once a week at least ,so i just dont think needles are as much a big deal as some of you think. i dont know, anyway, i wanna try this but hit a brick wall.



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 09:18 AM
Posted By: FollicleHell (Prolific Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

lol, you do realize that the nizoral , minox and just about everything else you use with the exception of proscar is made in china right? perhaps not mixed in china but the ingredients are made in china(as in the keto from your nizoral ect)


Yes those products are overlooked by the British authorities and go through Quality Control procedures . The institutions they buy from are liable to international law, what you're doing is not.

-------------------------
Proscar 1mg every day

Rogaine Foam(half a cup of foam)

Kirkland Minox(1ml)

Biotin tabs 5mg

Nizoral 2/3 times a week.

Prayers or cursing depending on growth or loss respectively.



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 09:20 AM
Posted By: FollicleHell (Prolific Poster)

Can this product be used in conjunction with "conventional hair loss treatments" such as the Big 3?

Here's what I need it to fill in:

-------------------------
Proscar 1mg every day

Rogaine Foam(half a cup of foam)

Kirkland Minox(1ml)

Biotin tabs 5mg

Nizoral 2/3 times a week.

Prayers or cursing depending on growth or loss respectively.



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 09:23 AM
Posted By: fuzzy warbles (Regular Poster)

Theone posts info from Debris on this site.

" There was a topical cream which was developed and gave some interesting results:"

Nice results

http://www.aussiegymjunkies.com/showthread.php?t=5989

-------------------------
Read, read, read. Then read some more.



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 09:48 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

that topical cream and those photos have proven to be a sham...i dont believe this should even be tried topically or tb500 subcutaniously...i think if you are gonna do it, you do it right, you use real tb4 from a real source with scalp injections. i will do it but i just gotta make sure im buying the correct tb4.i have a few letters in trying to get some info as to what the difference is between tb4 and tb500 and what type of tb4 is active



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 10:03 AM
Posted By: fuzzy warbles (Regular Poster)

I'd be interested in seeing Theone's results.

-------------------------
Read, read, read. Then read some more.



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 10:22 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

The thing is all the threads i have been reading through in the bodybuilder forum 6+ hours. They swear by it. They say it kills there injuries & takes out the inflammation on their pains. I am all spent trying to find answer today but found this article on tb500. Here is just the first paragraph just follow the link to read the rest. I am leaning towards tb500 as I have an operation coming up an it should speed up recovery aswell.

TB-500 or Thymosin Beta 4, as it is called, is a study peptide that is examined primarily for its abilities to increase strength, endurance and recovery in subjects. It is often used in mounts for the duration of clinical trials and is sold for exploration purposes only. It is known to have many of the same effects of growth hormone in animals equating to results in humans that would be equivalent to an increase in testosterone in spite of. It has been shown to inhibit tumor growth making TB-500 a great product for analysis studies and with further testing, one thing that may become widely accepted in the minds of many.

TB-500 has been proven to speed up the healing process in wounds as well as being used clinically for anti-inflammatory purposes. This is extremely important when it comes to competitive competitions or events as well as simple body maintenance. Recovery times and pain relief occur much faster for the duration of use allowing for peak performance as well as a healthier well being. Subjects have also shown a slight increase in hair growth which is a positive side effect of TB-500 use. As you can see, analysis in animals has shown superior and fascinating results in present studies when it comes to its use. read on http://www.thoughts.com/freder...fits-in-clinical-tests

Thing is these guys in the bodybuilding forums are not injecting to their scalp and still noticing hair growth. Dont get me wrong Jimbo if the tb4 was available & easy got i would be onboard but as of now I am willing to try what is obtainable at this moment.



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 10:31 AM
Posted By: fuzzy warbles (Regular Poster)

These?

http://www.peptidelabs.com/tb-500.html

http://www.tb500.com/

-------------------------
Read, read, read. Then read some more.

Edited: 06/16/2012 at 10:39 AM by fuzzy warbles



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 10:41 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

that article kinda proves my point....who wrote that article? why is there no other articles about tb500? why arnt any scientific papers cited or sources cited in that article? to me it seems all the things they claim about tb500 has only been proven with tb4 and there is zero evidence that tb500 works at all like tb4, actually i cant even find out exactly what the hell tb500 is



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 10:43 AM
Posted By: fuzzy warbles (Regular Poster)

Tb500 is the synthetic version of tb4
http://www.ironmagazineforums....45365-tb4-peptide.html

Edit: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/research-chemicals/144115-t-4-a.html

" Hair Growth

It has also been demonstrated that TB4 promotes hair growth in various rat and mice models including a transgenic TB4 overexpressing mouse24. The mechanism by which TB4 acts to promote hair growth is by its stimulatory effects on follicle stem cell growth, migration, differentiation, and protease production."

Still, injecting anything is crazy.

-------------------------
Read, read, read. Then read some more.

Edited: 06/16/2012 at 10:59 AM by fuzzy warbles



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 10:59 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Guys I am all for finding a suitable source for thymosin beta 4 and using it. But while we are on the hunt for this I am going to try the thymosin beta 4 (TB-500) If someone doesnt give it a fair trail noone will know. I will try. Will order tomorrow & hopefully have it for friday. I will order 40 mg at either ergopep.com or greatwhitepeptides.com. Hvent made up my mind on which one yet but both sites are highly recommended on the bodybuilding forums & it does the trick for their injuries. Its worth a shot if anything. Now anyone know where to get the correct syringe & needle size for using on the scalp & what will it be best to mix it with? Like Sodium Chloride i think is recommend or BA water



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 11:00 AM
Posted By: fuzzy warbles (Regular Poster)

Why does it have to be injected?

-------------------------
Read, read, read. Then read some more.



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 11:11 AM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

ah... read this old thread about thymosin:
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/fo...R_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

it seems that it doesn't work. The website that used to sell that thymosin cream recently deleted those pages and stopped selling anything related to hair growth



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 11:12 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Cause the creams arent easily absorbed & do not work otherwise acistem would have been a hit.



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 11:19 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

i believe that it cant penetrate the dermis in any significant amount and if not injected it will either not work or need to be used in such high doses that it will cost like hundreds of dollars for each application...btw, fuzzy, that link you posted claiming tb500 is a synthetic tb4 really says nothing, as far as i can tell, tb500 has not ever been researched(all claims are based on tb4 studies not tb500 studies) there is no information online regarding what tb500 is(other than its a synthetic tb4, that means it could be a small fragment of the amino acid chain of real tb4, is this fraction active for stem cells and hair growth? who knows since it has never been studied. thats my point..if some are willing to experiment with this based on the hair growth of tb4, why not do it right? we can be on to something but if we try tb500 first and it proves a flop, people will lose interest and well never know how close we were to something with real tb4...on the other hand if this guy actually gets real tb500 and does scalp injections and it works, it would be a homerun since tb500 is cheap and easy to obtain..so in that respect i support his trial with tb500 scalp injections...he can do the tb500 and i can do the tb4 and well both report. im looking at 1mg daily(tb4 is kinda expensive i would have rather did 2 mg daily) every other day in my trouble areas for 30 days and then once a week for another month and then if i have growth once every couple months..thats the plan anyway.



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 11:21 AM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

dude!!!! do you know what paragraphs are? I'm going blind here

yes, please try it on yourself and then if it works report it back to us. This could be huge actually



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 11:31 AM
Posted By: fuzzy warbles (Regular Poster)

You've got bigger warbles than me.

-------------------------
Read, read, read. Then read some more.



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 11:32 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

http://www.velonation.com/News...r-doping-products.aspx here, even the authorities dont really know what tb500 is...apparently it has been invented by the chinese to sell internationally as a performance enhancer or a doping agent...its a "based on " "designer" peptide. personally i think its a waste of time since only tb4 has been proven to work and you have no idea how similar this is to tb4



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 11:34 AM
Posted By: fuzzy warbles (Regular Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

btw, fuzzy, that link you posted claiming tb500 is a synthetic tb4 really says nothing,

http://www.velonation.com/News...r-doping-products.aspx here, even the authorities dont really know what tb500 is...apparently it has been invented by the chinese to sell internationally as a performance enhancer or a doping agent...its a "based on " "designer" peptide. personally i think its a waste of time since only tb4 has been proven to work and you have no idea how similar this is to tb4




You are under no obligation to convince me. I'm not trying this stuff.


I look forward to thorough before and after pics though.

-------------------------
Read, read, read. Then read some more.

Edited: 06/16/2012 at 11:42 AM by fuzzy warbles


Date Posted: 06/16/2012 11:41 AM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

is it possible that this thymosin stuff could also grow tumors?



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 11:43 AM
Posted By: fuzzy warbles (Regular Poster)

Originally posted by: 2020_2

is it possible that this thymosin stuff could also grow tumors?


It's used on horses and greyhounds constantly. Although I'm pretty sure they don't live as long as humans.

Somebody needs to recruit some of those juice heads to this forum.

-------------------------
Read, read, read. Then read some more.



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 11:45 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

no, tb4 was first thought to grow tumors because they found elevated levels around tumors but then they realized they were being produced to fight the tumors. now they think it actually helps to fight tumors.



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 11:56 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Jimbo if you happen to stumble upon the real deal keep us informed. I will do my best to find a reliable source also. But in the meantime I will be trailing the tb500. Like I said Im going in for an op so i will have some use for it regardless of whether it works for hair or not. Also tired of saying this but if we have enough interested ppl willing to group buy im sure we could really cut the costs if we get the right source, no pioint flying solo on this Jimbo if we can save money by group buying. Understand if noone else wants to try it but you don't know until you try. At least it has been proven to be safe on humans.



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 12:01 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

well like i said,i found a source, but the sell tb4 16-38 i also found a source for full tb4..its 1,900 dollars for 25 mg..



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 12:05 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

@fuzzy warbles: Calling them juice heads isnt exactly a welcoming invitation. That guy theone is the only person i could find that injected into his head. Hopefully he respond to my post over there so I can get his protocol



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 12:08 PM
Posted By: fuzzy warbles (Regular Poster)

Originally posted by: summersnow

@fuzzy warbles: Calling them juice heads isnt exactly a welcoming invitation. That guy theone is the only person i could find that injected into his head. Hopefully he respond to my post over there so I can get his protocol


Why so serious

-------------------------
Read, read, read. Then read some more.



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 12:10 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

well like i said,i found a source, but the sell tb4 16-38 i also found a source for full tb4..its 1,900 dollars for 25 mg..

25 mg isnt much unless your using only for urself. going 50/50 would only give us 12.5mg each. Way above my pay grade there. You mentioned a source yesterday that was selling a gram for $1500 now that would be more than enough to get 5 or 6 people well on their way to full regrowth providing it was legit of course.



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 01:34 PM
Posted By: SmitySmity (Regular Poster)

Like skin, my belief now is you have to keep at it. If DHT is that bad, you have to constantly clear it.

-------------------------
Regimen - November to December 2012

RU58841
Equol
ASC-J9
Latanoprost
AHK-CU
OC000459
Misoprostol
Zyrtec
Mixed Essential/Carrier Oil
Mixed Vitamin Enriched Plant Essential Oil

Orally
25+ Mixed Supplements



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 02:03 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

yea that source i found in china for 1500 a gram was advertising as tb4 but i also saw they were advertising tb500 as well with the same catalog number. i dont trust that its real tb4...i would love to know what the difference is but there zero info online about tb500 other than its "like tb4"



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 02:04 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

btw, yea im gonna use 25 mg by myself..i assume that i can growth by the time im through with the 25 mg but the problem is that its too expensive..i would love to find a cheaper source.



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 02:34 PM
Posted By: Speedracer (Newbie)

Jimbo69 are you going to give this a shot or not? Where is this source that you say has real tb4 ill buy some too and start injections the day it is delivered. I use other products from some of the body building sites so taking injection is common place for me. Shit or get off the pot. I am pulling for you and would love to join you in this adventure.



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 03:02 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

american peptides. you can google it. they have tb4 16-38 they sell 5mg for around 500 bucks and 25 mg for 1900..perhaps we can get a group buy and get the price down significantly , i dont know. i would feel free to write them and ask but they are gonna wanna know what organization you are from or they wont sell to you i dont think. yes, im gonna do it, if im doing this alone i dont care. i hope the other guy who is trying tb500 is serious too cause i would love to know if that works for hair as well cause the price is a hell of a lot cheaper but its the cheap price that has be concerned actually.my plan is to try and use tb500 to maintain what the known real stuff grows cause if it cant at least i know that the real stuff works



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 03:35 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Ok guys... I'm gonna be honest, bobybuilders are WAY ahead of most guys on this forum... None of you (except D2) knows me personally, but I'm sure he will atest to my knowledge on peptides and AAS and research chemicals in general. Tb4 is a peptide with a 39 Amino Acid sequence. TB4 is the full spectrum. 16-38 is whats called a "fragment" of the whole structure. It's the AA sequence from #16-38. That's it. That particular sequence has the highest affinity for certain activations on the recptor site. There are TONS of companies selling this and not as a fragment, but as a full spectrum. Here's a comparison... Human Growth Hormone has a 191 (or 2 depending) AA sequence, however, the fragmnet 176-191 is very good at stimulating endogenous GH release independently. I don't want to throw out any company names, but this product can be found for $20 for 5mg and that IS an American product. Just because "legit" chemical companies want to charge $1000 for it doesn't mean the others are not legit. If You guys want, I will link to the site to order. I have dealt with this company a LOT and vouch for them. If I was gonna do this, I might add in some of the other peptides/growth factors that Histogen is using as well. About a month ago, I provided links for that stuff, but no one even seemed to get what I was saying.

Sub Q into the scalp all the way (not topical cream) and I'd try 1-2mg per week for 4 weeks then 1-2mg per month maintenance. In the next couple of weeks, I will be interviewed on FitPhysiqueRadio about my ergogenic knowledge about bodybuilding, steroids, nutition and supplements however I intend to steer the convo into hair loss (as it relates to steroids) and I will likely discuss this forum and the new discoveries being tested by us guinea pigs.

Anyone that wants to listen, I'llk post the show date asap.



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 06:09 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

first off i think tb4 is a 44 amino acid sequence not 39 but i hear you, i understand that some fragments have better affinity but the question remains what sequence is tb500 and what sequence was used in the hair studies?because these weight lifting sites are basically selling an unknown substance as no one knows what tb500 really is ..it might be good for one thing and useless for another



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 06:10 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

btw please send me a pm with a link to your supplier thanks



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 09:14 PM
Posted By: marklc2004 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: 2020_2

neosh is a growth stimulant? I can't find any info on it. What exactly is it?


PSI is a peptide aldehyde. A peptide basically. "It inhibits the activity of the proteasome and both promotes hair growth and stimulates the production of hair follicles. The peptide compound is thus useful in stimulating hair growth



Date Posted: 06/16/2012 11:20 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: marklc2004

PSI is a peptide aldehyde. A peptide basically. "It inhibits the activity of the proteasome and both promotes hair growth and stimulates the production of hair follicles. The peptide compound is thus useful in stimulating hair growth


got it... so it's a stimulant rather than some another DHT blocker.

When are you going to get it?



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 02:50 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

@RSR40 Can you also pm me the link too. Have you already tried this Human Growth Hormone & peptides/growth that histrogen use on your scalp or is this something your planning to do? Also can you shoot me a pm with the links to the suppliers. I am at a crossroads here you sound like your very clued up on the peptides do you think this other Human Growth Hormone has a better chance of growing hair than the TB4 or TB500 i would love to know.



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 05:25 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

According to this post on here http://clinicalgradepeptides.c...in-Beta-4/prod_22.html TB500 has all 44 AAs. This is the sequence: Ac-Ser-Asp-Lys-Pro-Asp-Met-Ala-Glu-Ile-Glu-Lys-Phe-Asp-Lys-Ser-Lys-Leu-Lys-Lys-Thr-Glu-Thr-Gln-Glu-Lys-Asn-Pro-Leu-Pro-Ser-Lys-Glu-Thr-Ile-Glu-Gln-Glu-Lys-Gln-Ala-Gly-Glu-Ser
Whether they this is true or not I dont know cause they maybe just using false information as a selling point for their own product? Anyway something to consider. If TB500 does hold all 44 aas then when have hit the jackpot.



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 10:57 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

using the growth factors in histogen would also be something i would want to try but it would be too expensive ..if the tb500 proves to be real tb4, then it will be very cheap and one could add the histogen growth factors (like wnt-1 ect) but i have no idea where to buy those and weightlifters do not use those



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 11:03 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

I'm buying the tb500 today. I found the 5ml syringes on ebay just need to get the 27G needles and mixer then I should be good to go on wednesday or Thursday



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 11:08 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Will be dosing 5mg once a week for the first 8 weeks an then review it from there



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 11:16 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

@RSR40. would have been great if you could have sent us your sources but looks like you have disappeared. Well it is Sunday I shouldnt even be on the forum today. I have read all the posts on the source sponsor great white shark. They seem legit all the guys on the bodybuilding forums are happy with their products. I can get 10% off my first order. $45 international shipping. Buying ten 5 ml tb500 which comes to $219 altogether including shipping. Not cheap but it will last 10 weeks an if it works then it will be cheap enough to maintain



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 02:22 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Yep, 44 AA. My bad... The point is that the WHOLE sequence would be better than the fragment (unless the other sequences impart negative effects (doubt). I believe the ones we are looking at with whole sequence is way to go...



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 02:28 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Ok, if this isd NOT Ok, then mods delete...

I will VOUCH for this company as I have dealt with them for 2 years ordering off the wall research chems for bodybuilding, etc. I DO NOT WORK FOR THEM and if it becomes a "shill" thread, I will back out of thread ASAP. So, here ya go guys...

www.osta-gain.com

They have 5mg of TB500 for 19.99. I have used their GW501-516 and SARMS from them before. I know at least 3 PRO bodybuilders that use their products and love them. Point is that I BELIEVE they are GTG and if you want to read up on them, join professionalmuscle.com and look on the SPONSORS forum to question OSTAGAIN directly. They have several REPS on the forum over there.



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 02:30 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Look under USA made Amino Acids to find the product



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 02:36 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Actually, many of the growth factors in Histogen ARE easily available throught these type of companies. In a recent thread (the one that showed the impressive temple regrowth pic) I posted links to several of the factors. I can't find that thread now, though. It was pretty recent...



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 02:46 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Hey RSR40 I done alot of reading over the weekend. An I think TB500 is worth a shot. You can get the TB500 cheaper at great white peptides. They seem to be legit also what do you think?



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 02:50 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Kinda of the subject of TB4 but I thought Id mention it have you heard of this chemical PAL-GHK here is a run down of it.

GHK (GHK-Cu) Has been shown in multiple scientific studies to possess significant biological benefits to the human body. Some of these benefits which have already been proven through many research studies world wide are the following: * INCREASED WOUND HEALING * INCREASES IMMUNE DEFENSE * ANTI-OXIDANT & ANTI - INFLAMMATORY EFFECTS * STIMULATION OF NEW COLLAGEN IN AGING SKIN * ANTI-AGING BENEFITS FOR PHOTO-AGED & WRINKLED SKIN * STRONGLY STIMULATES HAIR GROWTH. * PROMOTES NERVE REGENERATION. * ALLOWS EPIDERMAL STEM CELLS TO REPAIR DAMAGED SKIN. * SHOWN TO REVERSE THE METASTATIC SPREAD OF COLON CANCER. Its being sold for $69 for 10mg of it.



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 02:51 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

please post that link or maybe try and find the sources again because i am having a hard time. if i am gonna try tb500 first it does leave quite a bit of money for me to try it with the histogens like wnt , kgf ect. thanks a lot..;i wanna keep this tread active with as much feedback as possible because i am sick of playing games with this chit...we know that anti androgens will stop loss and many of us are on them but to stimulate the body to begin growing hair again and help rebuild follicles is another matter and i think reintroducing growth factors and stimulating stem cells is the only option...minox and bim are garbage in my opinion...if we can inject our scalps a couple times a year for good growth, who the hell wants all that other garbage...i think that histogen growth factor injection studies have show something like a 75 percent increase in hair growth, thats f-ing amazing and i think the studies also show that once growth starts you will only need to retreat a couple times a year(that that wasnt factoring in AAS ..perhaps if we get growth with tb4 and histogen growth factors, we can maintain that hair with something as simple as propecia...at the very least propecia can slow down further loss so we will only need to retreat with injections like once a year.



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 02:56 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

btw summer, i tried copper peptides and they did little to nothing...im not alone, copper peptides have been used by a lot of people on these forums with little to no growth....we need to go where no one has gone before ...we need sub Q injections of tb4 and histogen growth factors...im gonna start collecting them. so found tb4 now we need histogens growth factors from a good source( from what i remember they used wnt-1. kgf. egf, i cant remember the rest)



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 02:59 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Sounds like a plan Jimbo just waiting on a reply from RSR40 as to whether I should buy from the great white peptide website or not.



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 03:07 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

I can't personally vouch for Great White products, because I have not used them, but they seem to have good support on BB forums in general. As I said, Osta-gain.com has 5mg for $19.99 and I have used their products. I just don't want to ENDORSE anyone and get called a shill, so it's really up to you to try them I guess.



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 03:08 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Can't find that Histogen thread... Anyone??? It was the one that someone posted a few weeks ago with the amazing temple regrowth pics... I posted several links to other "growth factors" in that thread.



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 03:09 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Thanks for helping out RSR40. Do you have links to the other histogen growth factors?



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 03:11 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: RSR40

Can't find that Histogen thread... Anyone??? It was the one that someone posted a few weeks ago with the amazing temple regrowth pics... I posted several links to other "growth factors" in that thread.


Is this the thread your talking about? http://www.hairlosshelp.com/fo...AR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 03:22 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

for the love of god stop arguing semantics... someone buy this thymosin and try it out. If it works - great, if not, we'll just move on to something else...



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 03:26 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

not for nothing 2020, you are not gonna try it so why the hell are you chiming in? iv been reading these threads for years with no progress past what fin and minox can do, we are about to try something groundbreaking so please either contribute or mind your own business. no one is forcing you to read this thread. like i said im gonna use tb4 with histogen gfs so we are now looking to source everything and several questions still remain.



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 03:30 PM
Posted By: fuzzy warbles (Regular Poster)

If you get results how will you know it's not all the spiro you're eating?

-------------------------
Read, read, read. Then read some more.



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 03:39 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

ill know cause i have been treating my hairloss for a long time and did a spiro trial a couple years ago so i know where i grow hair with aa,s and where i dont, as far as my before and after photos? well, i dont care if you guys think its from spiro or not cause im doing this for me, not to mention everyone on this board is on several treatments and they wouldnt even be considering tb4 and growth factor injections if they were happy with their anti androgen therapy. besides, by the time i get all my supplies for this experiment i will be done with my spiro trial and i will only be using fin and topical siro(to date i have never seen anyone grow histogen style hair with fin and topical spiro, actually most grow hardly any hair with fin and topical spiro. what we need to focus on is dose cause based on tb500 and the few growth factors rsr has found, this experiment should cost 500 bucks give or take and there was continued growth into 12 months after a single injection in the histogen trials. i still think we need to find wnt-1 ....does anyone have a list of the growth factors used in histogen ?



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 04:02 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Just purchased 50mg the tb500. Jimbo or RSR40 do you know whats the best solution to mix this in? I heard ones on the bodybuilding forum complain about sterile water stinging them when they mix it with tb500. What do yous think? BAC Water? I am using 25g needles & a 5ml syringe for this. All I need now is to know what to mix it with so please speak up someone.

Edited: 06/17/2012 at 05:17 PM by summersnow



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 05:33 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

thats what i was worried about...tb4 shouldnt sting when injected and sterile water shouldnt sting either...i read a report of fake growth hormone that stung when injected and it turned out to be vitamin b.. you are only supposed to use sterile water so you really have no choice.. ill buy some tb4 as well and well see how they compare when injected. im also gonna use a histgen gf mix as well. ill keep you updated



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 05:44 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Im just going to test it without the histgen gf mix. I will hadda go with the sterile water then. I will report back after my first injection on thursday. Only thing is how deep will i need to go into the scalp with the needle?



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 05:50 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

as long as you inject into the dermis you are fine. i would try not to inject too far though. inject it like the doctor does when he gives you a vaccine. deep enough for it to bleed but shallow enough so that you can see a bubble under the skin where the injection was done. i would do several small injections all over the scalp. like fill a 1cc syringe like half way and use that amount to do like 5 or more small injections, does that make sense? fill the syringe again half way to do another 5 injections and so on. i will be using 2mg to treat my entire head. and then i will wait a couple days and do it again. btw, a lot of steroid users add some acid mixture to the water they use to dilute but its my understanding that tb4 shouldnt need that and should be fine with just water so maybe its the acid that was causing the burn



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 05:53 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

btw, they sell two type of insulin syringes, one with a short needle and one with a slightly longer needle. i will be using a slightly longer needle, not because i wanna go that deep, but because i wanna inject on an angle so that when i do, the solution doesnt come out of the injection hole as easy, does this make sense as well? like inject on a sharp angle, no to go deep but so that you have a lot of needle in before you start pushing the plunger



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 05:56 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

A lot of peptides (like IGF-1 LR3) are mixed with Acetic Acid rather than Bacteriostatic Water. YES AA does sting!!! I don't think the TB4 in BW should sting at all. I would mix 5ccs of BW into the 5mg peptide making it 1mg/ml and go from there.



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 05:58 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

btw, what areas are you treating? bald temples or diffuse areas? i think diffuse areas will do awesome, bald temples may not respond as well or as fast



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 06:02 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

btw, they sell two type of insulin syringes, one with a short needle and one with a slightly longer needle. i will be using a slightly longer needle, not because i wanna go that deep, but because i wanna inject on an angle so that when i do, the solution doesnt come out of the injection hole as easy, does this make sense as well? like inject on a sharp angle, no to go deep but so that you have a lot of needle in before you start pushing the plunger


Yes & yesthat does make sense. I ordered the a 25g needles which is 3/4 of an inch in length hopefully i can manage to angle that in. I read that the bac water makes the peptides last longer like for months where as the sterile water will only last 72 hrs. I wonder if its affects last longer within the scalp than if we were to use sterile water only? What are your thoughts on that Jimbo help me lean toward either one.



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 06:06 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Jimbo... That sounds about right to me. Kind of like a botox injection, not too deep and on an angle.

I'm gonna order some too, but only use it on my crown. I have had exceptional regrowth already from Fin and Minox, however the hair in my crown is still miniaturized and thinner overall than the rest of head. I am excited!

As I mentioned earlier, I will be discussing this stuff and other peptides, etc. on a worldwide bodybuilding radio program next Monday evening. Let me know if you guys would like to listen. I am going to be discussing acne and MPB in steroid users but will no doubt spend a lot of time on hairloss treatments in general. I'm not a doctror (yet) but am studying in the field of dermatology and am a former physique model/trainer/nutritonist and I am good friends with the producer of the show. He calls me the hair "guru" in the gym and thinks my hair is so dense now it looks like a wig... I guess that's a compliment. LOL



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 06:09 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

25 guage is fairly big. In fact, most oil based steroids will easily push through that size. I would say with a water based injection, the smaller the better. 28 guage is what I will use.



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 06:11 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

btw, what areas are you treating? bald temples or diffuse areas? i think diffuse areas will do awesome, bald temples may not respond as well or as fast

Ive regained most of my hair with spiro & 0.5 of propecia per day. used to be a norwood 3 with a shitload of thinning on the crown now i would we a norwood 2 with the hairline a bit receded especially my right temple so if it grows hair there then there can be no denying it



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 06:13 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

When you say water based injection do you just mean the sterile water then?
EDIT:
Went with the sterile water. Thats my shopping done just need to wait on everything arriving this week. Looking forward to this first injection

Edited: 06/17/2012 at 06:22 PM by summersnow



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 06:21 PM
Posted By: alpha (Occasional Poster)

hello gents; couple things to add from someone currently using peptides sub-q:

-peptides are 100% the future. they fkn work. this isn't just "the next thing to try" aka snake oil, peptides are mother fkn incredible...MOTHER FKN incredible.

-jimbo69 is the fkn MAN for doing this for all of us; total hero move on his part. please acknowledge this. piping in at jimbo with "yo pick a formula and start going already" is so far off base and intellectually lazy. most of you have NO IDEA HOW INCREDIBLE PEPTIDES ARE but also the degree of diligence and research they require. whoever mentioned the meatheads are WAY ahead of us is SO TRUE, so are all the folks going with melanotan

-right now i am taking melanotan-1 by sub-Q injection (80mg cycle with 5/16 pins, 31gauge) to gain internal photoprotection for my fragile fair skin while i crush outdoor sports all summer. let me help out the community here...PEPTIDES DO WHAT THEY SAY. need proof with my particular peptide. take a look at the forums for melanotan--there are super thorough log reports, this stuff if used with the correct patience and diligence of injections turns pale red heads into healthy bronzed skin!! im not far enough in to report a success story myself, but i have an irish mate that turned super tan last summer and is tan as all hell right now...a healthy bronzed look as if he changed his genetics with this supplement

-with peptides, we MUST SHIFT THE PARADIGM OF OUR EXPECTATIONS.. this isn't just "oh here is the 10,001 formula". if TB4 pinned into the scalp does anything CLOSE to what melanotan does it will be so mother fkn incredible i really cannot even get into how exciting this would be. what has happened to my friend with melanotan-1 (MT-2 is even more intense, but not as safe) is breathtaking and life changing. for those of you who are able to tan don't totally understand those superlatives but trust me from someone who only burns you are so damn lucky its a legit missing trait of the human race we are dealing with

-peptides don't represent "just the next little formula trying to rub on our domes like idots". this is coming from someone who uses prox and minox (still have dr. lees btw from a lucky stock up). peptides are THE REAL FKN DEAL! peptides REALLY DO THE THINGS THEY SAY! I know this sounds nuts for something to do what it says in this space. this is not some b/s topical mix where we worry about absoprtion level, major side effects, complex 'hypersensitivity' etc. peptides address gaps in our genetics and THEY FILL THOSE GAPS. its totally amazing. GRP-G, GHK, there is so much more to get into when we approach 40s,50s,60s this will be commonplace to self-administer supervised dosing of peptides.

-i sound like im selling something? yes, the concept and science behind PEPTIDES IN GENERAL. get on board and research..NOW.

@jimbo--bro this is an incredible find on your part. would even be willing to paypal you a few bucks to support this. if others did this perhaps we could give jimbo a partial scholarship to try for the community and document results diligently. we could really be looking at a de facto cure here. melanotan is 100% a cure for skin that can't tan. 100%!! its not a DEBATE with melanotan. its not like its close/boderline like here with people chiming in "oh but is that just lighting?" the documented results are so fkn overwhelming its not even a DISCUSSION. go have a look at the various forums on it. its not a forum debate with "comb overs", questions about lighting, etc its a whole different world we are so used to getting used and abused with our hopes crushed please please set that pain aside in this quest to explore peptides for hair RE-GROWTH / complete re-generation



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 06:26 PM
Posted By: alpha (Occasional Poster)

@summersnow, you can order bacteriostatic water that is needed to reconstitute the formula basically at numerous places online, even amazon. you guys really need to do a bunch of reading on the blogs where people are far ahead/into peptides. once you pick it up, it gets very easy.



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 06:41 PM
Posted By: alpha (Occasional Poster)

also props to summersnow for volunteering with this! did we end up that all of your are trialing the same full sequence TB4? same dosing and formula, etc i assume?



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 07:05 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: alpha

also props to summersnow for volunteering with this! did we end up that all of your are trialing the same full sequence TB4? same dosing and formula, etc i assume?


Hey Alpha, Im just going to be injecting 5cc using 5mg tb500 in 4 areas of my scalp once a week for 8 weeks an see where that takes us



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 07:07 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: RSR40

Jimbo... That sounds about right to me. Kind of like a botox injection, not too deep and on an angle.



I'm gonna order some too, but only use it on my crown. I have had exceptional regrowth already from Fin and Minox, however the hair in my crown is still miniaturized and thinner overall than the rest of head. I am excited!



As I mentioned earlier, I will be discussing this stuff and other peptides, etc. on a worldwide bodybuilding radio program next Monday evening. Let me know if you guys would like to listen. I am going to be discussing acne and MPB in steroid users but will no doubt spend a lot of time on hairloss treatments in general. I'm not a doctror (yet) but am studying in the field of dermatology and am a former physique model/trainer/nutritonist and I am good friends with the producer of the show. He calls me the hair "guru" in the gym and thinks my hair is so dense now it looks like a wig... I guess that's a compliment. LOL


I will listen in is it monday the 25th? Also can you give the radio station so I can stream it online?



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 07:28 PM
Posted By: themaskedman (Regular Poster)

Sorry to interrupt, guys, but would anyone mind explaining what's going on to someone who isn't in the know? I'm also not too good with biology stuff so it's kind of going over my head.

Sounds like you found some kind of chemical that you can inject yourself and... supposedly... will regrow?

-------------------------
Norwood 2.5

Regimen: Biotin, Nizoral, and confidence.



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 07:29 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

this is awesome. personally i think peptides will see great regrowth(provided we are able to get real peptides) i mean, the science suggests it should work, the tb4 studies and histogen trials (along with other studies) prove that it does work, i think the reason big pharma never really pursued this full on is because i think patenting a nature substance is difficult to say the least, not to mention tedious and invasive delivery method, high cost, short shelf life ect, all suggest this might be a tough sell to all but the most serious about getting their hair back... i just ordered tb4 and am still seeking the histogen growth factors cause i am gonna trial them as well. so far i found a source for two of them (thanks to rsr40) but im still having a hard time locating the old site that had the entire list of all growth factors that histogen uses( not to mention doses) i think perfect dosing might prove less important or even using all the growth factors but i would at least like to locate as many as possible. any help from you guys would be huge. i already have to inject myself for an unrelated issue so maybe its because of that i am less afraid of needles...it seems that the others here trialing this also have experience with needles(steroids ect) so maybe we can pave the way for a breakthrough finally.



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 07:33 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

btw, some of the other peptides i have seen mentioned on weightlifting forums i believe i have heard of growing hair(like melatonin ect) but right now i will be using tb4, and histogen growth factors...it seems that i cant get the histogen growth factors on any muscle sites so i will have to go through a legit supplier. thats fine. if you guys using tb4 alone get results this is a f-ing homerun..this can prove to work better than avodart and it after you get growth started and just need to maintain, it could prove cheaper as well with no sides. im excited. but like i said, i still need help locating histogen growth factors and doses if possible, does anyone know?



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 07:35 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: themaskedman

Sorry to interrupt, guys, but would anyone mind explaining what's going on to someone who isn't in the know? I'm also not too good with biology stuff so it's kind of going over my head.



Sounds like you found some kind of chemical that you can inject yourself and... supposedly... will regrow?


yes, we are gonna trial scalp injections of tb4 and histogen growth factors. ever since histogen released trial results showing something like a 75 percent increase in hair growth with results lasting at least a year after one treatment, many have talked about trying to locate the peptides and try this ourselves but none have gone through with it..personally i am shocked no one has tried it because a few years ago i remember an entire threat of people trying to mimic the results of the hedgehog experiments and they were using a cheese grater on their heads with lithium topical...lol, i always thought it was silly but for some reason many were willing to do that but using a botox type syringe is too much?? lol



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 07:47 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

btw summer, 3/4 inch needle will be fine. i had a pain condition a few years ago and i was injecting a substance called buprinex..it came in glass ampules and i would inject that in my arm a couple times a day,.... lol, it was supposed to be a less abusive form of morphine but it got me high as hell, lol..but anyway, i used a 3.4 inch needle for those injections. i dont think there is much danger in injecting too deep in the scalp, i mean, i wouldnt try to get it too deep but i think you are better off a little deep that too shallow. the skin is your scalp is pretty shallow. if you can inject in an angle and get most of the needle in your scalp im sure you are deep enough and if your scraping your skull maybe you should lighten up a bit



Date Posted: 06/17/2012 11:24 PM
Posted By: fuzzy warbles (Regular Poster)

Originally posted by: RSR40

Interesting that the peptide follistatin is in this. Is it the major component, because follistatin is available on the undergroung bodybuilding forums now?



">http://www.biotangusa....t/f.....html





Who's ready to inject this into their scalp???


http://www.hairlosshelp.com/fo...R_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

Is follistatin the same thing?

-------------------------
Read, read, read. Then read some more.



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 12:51 AM
Posted By: Mysterious (Prolific Poster)

Originally posted by: summersnow

Ive regained most of my hair with spiro & 0.5 of propecia per day. used to be a norwood 3 with a shitload of thinning on the crown now i would we a norwood 2 with the hairline a bit receded especially my right temple so if it grows hair there then there can be no denying it


Are you takin Spiro orally? What dose?

Do you or does anyone know from actualy users if topical Spiro worked for them. And if so, how can we make topical Spiro?



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 04:32 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: alpha

@summersnow, you can order bacteriostatic water that is needed to reconstitute the formula basically at numerous places online, even amazon. you guys really need to do a bunch of reading on the blogs where people are far ahead/into peptides. once you pick it up, it gets very easy.


I ended up getting both bac water and sterile water. Will probably test it with the bac water first & then try the sterile water by injecting into my injury aswell. If the sterile water doesn't burn me on my injury then I give the sterile water a go on the scalp but I will be testing bac water on my scalp with my first injection. Is it possible that bac water could have a negative affect on hair with whatever is in it other than the alcohol? I need someone to clarify that either-way encase i am doing more harm than good using bacwater. All i know is the bac water is supposed to make the peptides last at least a over a month when mixed. Now another question more importantly will that then mean by using bacwater it could make the peptides last longer in our scalps? Where as the peptides are only supposed to survive 72 hrs using normal sterile water.

Do you think 25gauge is too big for needling into the scalp. The website Jimbo found recommended between a 26 & 27 gauge needle with a 4ml mix per 4mgs of tb4. Here is the link Jimbo gave at the start of the thread all the info is on there.

http://www.arsmedical.info/tem...actor-mesotherapy.html

Edited: 06/18/2012 at 05:20 AM by summersnow


Date Posted: 06/18/2012 05:38 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

this is awesome. personally i think peptides will see great regrowth(provided we are able to get real peptides) i mean, the science suggests it should work, the tb4 studies and histogen trials (along with other studies) prove that it does work, i think the reason big pharma never really pursued this full on is because i think patenting a nature substance is difficult to say the least, not to mention tedious and invasive delivery method, high cost, short shelf life ect, all suggest this might be a tough sell to all but the most serious about getting their hair back... i just ordered tb4 and am still seeking the histogen growth factors cause i am gonna trial them as well. so far i found a source for two of them (thanks to rsr40) but im still having a hard time locating the old site that had the entire list of all growth factors that histogen uses( not to mention doses) i think perfect dosing might prove less important or even using all the growth factors but i would at least like to locate as many as possible. any help from you guys would be huge. i already have to inject myself for an unrelated issue so maybe its because of that i am less afraid of needles...it seems that the others here trialing this also have experience with needles(steroids ect) so maybe we can pave the way for a breakthrough finally.


Jimbo here is a link to a publication on histrogen substances http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22052313

Substances:
Follistatin
Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor A
WNT7A protein, human
Wnt Proteins
Fibroblast Growth Factor 7

All of follistatin/VEGF/KGF are available at Sigma Aldrich, and they cost about 250 apiece.

I can't take credit for finding this as I found it from the hairsite forum.



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 09:18 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

yea thanks i found that as well, i also found the wnts, but those prices are for amounts of 10ug each.....i have no idea if this is even enough for a dose or perhaps several doses. thats my problem...unlike tb4, it seems that histogen can continue to grow hair and thick hair after a single injection so im trying to find out if i bought the 10ug amounts of each , exactly how much would that be in terms of doses. thats where i am stuck. if anyone feels like offering a suggestion id appreciate it.



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 09:21 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

hey summer, where do you live? depending on what state you live in syringes are legal to purcahase at a local pharmacy without a prescription. i live in nyc and here you can just go the the pharmacy and buy a package of 26 g needles



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 10:05 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

yea thanks i found that as well, i also found the wnts, but those prices are for amounts of 10ug each.....i have no idea if this is even enough for a dose or perhaps several doses. thats my problem...unlike tb4, it seems that histogen can continue to grow hair and thick hair after a single injection so im trying to find out if i bought the 10ug amounts of each , exactly how much would that be in terms of doses. thats where i am stuck. if anyone feels like offering a suggestion id appreciate it.


See that's the problem right there the dosing. I mean 10ug does not seem like very much for one injection let alone multiple injections. You could stand to lose alot of money without knowing the proper dosing.

Originally posted by: jimbo69

hey summer, where do you live? depending on what state you live in syringes are legal to purcahase at a local pharmacy without a prescription. i live in nyc and here you can just go the the pharmacy and buy a package of 26 g needles


I live in the UK. I could get them off amazon.uk but if my bac water & tb500 arrive on Wednesday then I want to be injecting on Wednesday & not be waiting on amazon. Do you think 25g is too big then & may cause hair follicle damage in some way while injecting? Ive never used needles before myself so I don't know if there is a significant size difference between 25g & 26g



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 10:12 AM
Posted By: fuzzy warbles (Regular Poster)

Can't you stick your arm first and see what happens

-------------------------
Read, read, read. Then read some more.



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 10:26 AM
Posted By: wakebdr32 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: fuzzy warbles

Can't you stick your arm first and see what happens


Yea. After reading muscle forums, I'm tempted to try a 2-5mg / week but inject with subQ syringe in area like the stomach or back of arm first. Have a bad shoulder lifting and any improved hair thickening would be a bonus. Then maybe work up to scalp inject..

-------------------------
44yr old veteran and still NW2. Give your treatment reasonable time, monitor your results and do your own diligence. Many will respond differently to treatment regardless funded Pharma studies and peddlers that speak in absolutes...



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 10:37 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: fuzzy warbles

Can't you stick your arm first and see what happens


I am going to be injecting on my injured shoulder first anyway to see how it affects me. Then if it doesnt give me a burning sensation or if the burning sensation is not long lasting then I will be injecting into my scalp the very same day



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 10:55 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

no summer, i dont thin 25 g is too big, i mean, if i had my choice i would go with a 26 but since you already bought them i wouldnt worry about it, there will be no damage to your follicles..only problem with a larger needle is that it may hurt a little more going in and since the hole is gonna be slightly larger than a 26 or 27 just make sure you are deep enough so that you dont lose any when you pull out, also keep the needle in for a couple seconds after you push the plunger so that it distributes a bit before you pull it out so that none comes out with your syringe. as far as 26 and 27 , i would not use 27 because although its thinner, you will be doing multiple injections and the thinner the needle the quicker it dulls. basically, 26 is ideal, 25 is just fine provided you are ok with a tiny bit more effort getting it through the skin and imo 27 is too thin.hope this helps



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 11:46 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Cheers Jimbo I will order 26s an if they dont arrive the same day as the tb500 I will just use the 25s while waiting on 26s. May aswell do the thing right since i have already committed myself to carrying out the trail. BTW are you just going with the sterile water or are you going to try the bacwater. I have both ordered so I will just experiment with both an see if there is a difference.



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 12:12 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

just sterile water



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 12:16 PM
Posted By: fuzzy warbles (Regular Poster)

One of those peptide sites, dont remember which one, was giving fee bac water with every order. I think you are supposed to use bac.

-------------------------
Read, read, read. Then read some more.



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 12:55 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

So I am going to use this pretty soon, but I am on Fin/Minox and have a lot of hair now just from the Big 3. I have a great friend though, that wants to try it out. He is 43, NW3V diffuse with good bit of crown thinning. He is also ON anabolic steroids including 600mg week of Testosterone and 300mg per week of Trenbolone Acetate (5x stronger than DHT). So if he grows hair on his head with no treatments other than the TB4 and in the presence of HEAVY androgen use, that should be a knockout proof! By the way, this guy is the best, he has employed me as his trainer for 4 years and I look up to him immensley. He is a BEAST! 325lbs and benches 600 with ease. He also happens to own the largest strip club in the Daytona Beach, Florida area and gets women hair or not, yet even he still wants his hair back. He refuses to use Minox or Fin, but said "HELL YEAH" to TB4 scalp injections. I will be injecting and documenting his story with pics as soon as we get the stuff. This is going to be FUN!!!



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 02:08 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Hey RSR. You never mentioned the radio station channel your on in monday & whether were able to stream it off the internet or not. BTW will you be using bacwater for your friends scalp injections or just normal sterile water?



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 02:33 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

summer, how may mgs did you order? just curious if they are gonna be in 2mg vials cause its my understanding that you only need bac water when you are mixing a vial and only using some of it and putting the rest in the fridge. so if like 10 mgs is in one vial, maybe i would use bac water and if its several 2mg vials and you are injecting 2mg at a time, sterile water is fine. maybe someone who knows steroids can tell me if im right.



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 02:36 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

or if you have a seperate vial and there is more than 2mg in one vial, you can separate some and hydrate just what you are using with sterile water and not the rest?



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 02:36 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Jimbo, yes u r correct...

If the peptide will be used up within a few days-week, sterile water is GTG.

Summersnow...

http://fitphysiqueradio.maxspeed.ca/

Should be next Monday. I'll know for sure in a day or so.



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 02:44 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

rsr40, lets say he did order 10mgs or more and its in one vial...since i believe he is gonna do 2mgs a week, even in bac water, wont the rest eventually go bad before he can use it all? because 10mgs should last him over a month...would you keep tb4 in bac water for 6 weeks with no worry?



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 02:48 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

this tb4 stuff has been around for years... I'm surprised no one has tried it before



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 03:04 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Jimbo,

I always used BW with HgH and acetic acid with IGF-1. The HgH never stung and the IGF always did. I see no reason why the TB4 in BW would sting and if premixing a full 10mg, then it's the way to go. 2-4mg premixed in plain sterile water should be fine for several days, but I am not sure yet. I am going to use BW. The best palce to study peptides IMHO is professionalmuscle.com. Join up and then hit the PEPTIDE forum and see what you can find out. I will look more to see if there is any reason NOT to use BW with TB4.



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 03:08 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Also, if you join the forum I mentioned, you will no doubt find many more peptide sources and even special discount codes. There is also a "SPONSOR" forum where you can see the real world discussions about the quality of the different sponsor's products. They even lab test and publish the results of many products in a special forum, however I believe you have to have at least 50 posts to see that particular forum (it's locked to newbies).



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 03:23 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Look at this Jimbo...

http://www.greatwhitepeptides....ptides-1/pal-ghk.html

Looks like another great hair peptide



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 04:35 PM
Posted By: fuzzy warbles (Regular Poster)

A lot of this involves wound healing. Is that why mederma scar gel increases body hair diameter?

-------------------------
Read, read, read. Then read some more.



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 04:53 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

stop with that mederma scar gel crap....there are zero reports of that growing hair from anyone but you.



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 05:05 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

I think this thread will become immortal on here as Peptides and growth factors are the future and fortunately meatheads (like me) have been looking into them for many years. The use of peptides for hair loss captured my interest back in 2007 when I thought about injecting IGF-1 into my scalp. Now we have some SERIOUS underground stuff that only the big pharma chemists had access to until very recently. I'm betting a combo of TB4 and a few factors (like the one I sourced above) is going to make hair loss history. BIG WORDS, TIME WILL TELL.



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 05:06 PM
Posted By: fuzzy warbles (Regular Poster)

I agree.. I googled it before signing up here. There were no mentions.

I need a higher res camera so I can provide proof.

-------------------------
Read, read, read. Then read some more.



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 05:07 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

And we can do it ourselves, now... NOT in 5 years!LOL



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 05:14 PM
Posted By: fuzzy warbles (Regular Poster)

Call it crap if you like. I can say that on cuts I don't use mederma on my hair stays the same as opposed to cuts I treat with mederma. Maybe if I was mainlining the stuff like a heroin addict....


http://www.niams.nih.gov/News_...protein_wound_hair.asp


http://www.sciencedaily.com/re...05/12/051201224113.htm

-------------------------
Read, read, read. Then read some more.



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 05:28 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: RSR40

Also, if you join the forum I mentioned, you will no doubt find many more peptide sources and even special discount codes. There is also a "SPONSOR" forum where you can see the real world discussions about the quality of the different sponsor's products. They even lab test and publish the results of many products in a special forum, however I believe you have to have at least 50 posts to see that particular forum (it's locked to newbies).


what forum are you talking about?



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 05:47 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

We are getting a promo right now on the radio show!!!



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 05:50 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Next Monday at 8:30 I am going to be on Fitphysiqueradio.com and they just mentioned the Peptides and hairloss forum. By the way, I am Ryan Raymond, so you know who to to listen for... The show is live right now and I am excited to be on it next week to discuss hairloss, acne, peptides, etc.



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 05:52 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

2020...

professionalmuscle.com

The Peptide forum



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 05:53 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/f...19/fit-physique-radio

if you are interested



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 07:20 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

No hair changes of any kind here. Tb4 helped old injuries for my research animal. Its cheap try it & see....


My hair and nails grow incredibly fast on TB-500. My hair is thicker. I've been using it for a few months. I take 2mg every 6 days now. If I was rich I wild inject a vial everyday. The benefits are amazing!


As far as hair, its taking my gray away. Alot.



mixed results... however I'm very interested in this!



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 07:28 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Yeah, but they are using it systemically or locally into an injury... Totally different than injecting straight into scalp. Peptides are usally more active locally at site of injection, hence the reason people inject peptides directly into lagging muscles or injuries. To date, no one any forum has tried injections into scalp...Keep that in mind.



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 08:11 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: RSR40

Yeah, but they are using it systemically or locally into an injury... Totally different than injecting straight into scalp. Peptides are usally more active locally at site of injection, hence the reason people inject peptides directly into lagging muscles or injuries. To date, no one any forum has tried injections into scalp...Keep that in mind.


all right then I have high hopes for this

when are you getting it?



Date Posted: 06/18/2012 08:44 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

my point exactly...imo tb4 would have been trialed on these forums a long time ago, there was a lot of interest, but some scam company from korea put out a scam tb4 topical last year and a few people tried it, obviously it didnt work because you cant use tb4 like that and it was most likely not even tb4 but after that people lost interest.



Date Posted: 06/19/2012 02:27 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

summer, how may mgs did you order? just curious if they are gonna be in 2mg vials cause its my understanding that you only need bac water when you are mixing a vial and only using some of it and putting the rest in the fridge. so if like 10 mgs is in one vial, maybe i would use bac water and if its several 2mg vials and you are injecting 2mg at a time, sterile water is fine. maybe someone who knows steroids can tell me if im right.


Sorry bout the late reply Jimbo we are on different timezones. Needles & syringes came today, just waiting on my bac water, sterile water to arrive & most importantly my tb4.

This is how I am going to run my trail. My syringes hold a 5ml capacity, I have ordered 10 vials of 5mg tb4.

1/ I will mix 4ml of either bacwater or sterile water into one 5mg vial of tb4.

2/ I will inject all 5mg of tb4 spread out in 3 areas of my scalp once every 7 days.

So say it arrives this Wednesday I will be injecting 5mg of tb4 every Wednesday for the next 10 weeks.

3/ I will dispose of the needle & syringe in one of those needle exchange boxes & use a new needle & syringe for each session

4/ I will do this once a week for 10 weeks.

I figure by using the tb4 vial all in one session. Will not be a bad idea as it will be at its most potent.
Does this sound ok to you guys or do you have any better suggestions? I thought that place in Switzerland was injecting their customers with 4mg of tb4 once a week for 6 to 8 weeks to start with & once a month thereafter maybe i read it wrong.



Date Posted: 06/19/2012 02:37 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: RSR40

Look at this Jimbo...



">http://www.greatwhitep...es......al-ghk.html



Looks like another great hair peptide


I mentioned the same thing on Sunday RSR but Jimbo mentioned that it may not be that effective as its just a copper peptide & copper peptides have been used with no significant effect on hairloss. I will order it in a couple of months depending how my tb4 trail works out because i never heard of anyone injecting copper peps into their scalp I only heard of them being widely used in a number of shampoos.



Date Posted: 06/19/2012 03:44 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Guys not to get off subject as I know this is a tb4 thread but I would like to point out other major healing peptides that the bodybuilders have been experimenting on, ACT1 and BPC 157 have been successful in organ healing especially hearts. These peptides are also easily obtainable & the ACT1 is even cheaper than the TB4/500. It is something i will be willing to try myself depending on my TB4 trail results. I want to trail each of these peptides before the end of 2012. But first an foremost will be the TB4/500 when it arrives this week. I think this is the start of something big.

The BPC 157 was proven to have great healing effects when taken orally, abeit rats of course. I cant find any human trails. I guess the bodybuiders real world home trails would be all we have to go on:

Abstract

We improved medial collateral ligament (MCL) healing throughout 90 days after surgical transection. We introduced intraperitoneal, per-oral (in drinking water) and topical (thin cream layer) peptide therapy always given alone, without a carrier. Previously, as an effective peptide therapy, stable gastric pentadecapeptide BPC 157 (GEPPPGKPADDAGLV, an anti-ulcer peptide effective in inflammatory bowel disease therapy (PL 14736)) particularly improved healing of transected tendon and muscle and wound healing effect including the expression of the early growth response 1 (egr-1) gene. After MCL transection BPC 157 was effective in rats when given once daily intraperitoneally (10?µg or 10?ng/kg) or locally as a thin layer (1.0?µg dissolved in distilled water/g commercial neutral cream) at the site of injury, first application 30?min after surgery and the final application 24?h before sacrifice. Likewise, BPC 157 was effective given per-orally (0.16?µg/ml in the drinking water (12?ml/day/rat)) until sacrifice. Commonly, BPC 157 µg-ng-rats exhibited consistent functional, biomechanical, macroscopic and histological healing improvements. Thus, we suggest BPC 157 improved healing of acute ligament injuries in further ligament therapy. © 2010 Orthopaedic Research Society. Published by Wiley Periodicals, Inc. J Orthop Res 28:1155 - 1161, 2010

I must also point out that the BPC 157 has the first 15 fragments of the TB500 amino acid chain heres another abstract:

Amino acid sequence given in first source; a 15-amino acid fragment of a gastric peptide, BPC, with hepatoprotective effects
Also Known As:
BPC 15; BPC-15; BPC-157; booly protection compound 15; L-Valine, glycyl-L-alpha-glutamyl-L-prolyl-L-prolyl-L-prolylglycyl-L-lysyl-L-prolyl-L-alanyl-L-alpha-aspartyl-L-alpha-aspartyl-L-alanylglycyl-L-leucyl-

This bit i found on the professional muscle forum,

ACT1 PEPTIDE: this peptide is cleaved from thymosin, it was created from a section of the thymosin(TB-500) amino acid chain.

ACT1 PEPTIDE
- promotes skin wound healing
- closure at the wound site
- reduced scarring at the site of injury
- reduced inflammation at injury site
- research is being conducted in healing of the heart(tons of successful studies on heart post injury), spinal cord, cornea.


BPC 157:

- BPC 157 has been shown in rat studies to heal torn quadriceps muscles, detached achilles tendon, muscles that have been damaged/crushed
- dramatic fast recovery from muscle tears
- tendon to bone healing
- increased ligament healing
- has a variety of protective effects in the organs
- human trials demonstrate healing and prevention of stomach ulcers
- no adverse reactions have been seen in human trials.

Both ACT1 PEPTIDE and BPC 157 have been shown to heal a variety of wounds in all areas researched, including internal organs, muscles, ligaments, tendons, skin, internal lacerations from surgery, etc.

Edited: 06/19/2012 at 05:19 AM by summersnow



Date Posted: 06/19/2012 06:26 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

hopefully i should get my tb4 by tomorrow...i will start biweekly injections as soon as i get it but as far as me trying the histogen growth factors with it, it seems like too much cost and hassle...im now considering adding acell injections..i can get 30 mgs of powder for like 100 bucks or around..when i get that i will be adding that to my tb4 injections. some hair transplant doctors have posted some photos of acell injections without tb4 and although at first glance the photos dont seem very impressive, you have to take into consideration none were on any fin or other drugs and just about all the cases they were quite bald and fairly advanced in their loss...i suspect that with someone on fin acell injections alone may cause quite a cosmetic difference ..also should be noted that most doctors are now injecting prp with the acell...i dont know if that has proven much better but im just gonna go with acell and saline and tb4 injections...i think the logic of the doctors for adding the prp, is that acell creates a womb like environment , the product is full of growth factors that speed the transformation of stem cells into mature cells..i think the prp is placing extra stem cells near the acell and hair folicle but one of tb4s benifits is that it stimulates the production of stem cells so in theory, acell injections and tb4 should work as well or better



Date Posted: 06/19/2012 07:17 AM
Posted By: Kirby (Accomplished Poster)

jimbo, RSR40, summersnow, please keep us all in the loop with the progress of this.



Date Posted: 06/19/2012 09:08 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

hopefully i should get my tb4 by tomorrow...i will start biweekly injections as soon as i get it but as far as me trying the histogen growth factors with it, it seems like too much cost and hassle...im now considering adding acell injections..i can get 30 mgs of powder for like 100 bucks or around..when i get that i will be adding that to my tb4 injections. some hair transplant doctors have posted some photos of acell injections without tb4 and although at first glance the photos dont seem very impressive, you have to take into consideration none were on any fin or other drugs and just about all the cases they were quite bald and fairly advanced in their loss...i suspect that with someone on fin acell injections alone may cause quite a cosmetic difference ..also should be noted that most doctors are now injecting prp with the acell...i dont know if that has proven much better but im just gonna go with acell and saline and tb4 injections...i think the logic of the doctors for adding the prp, is that acell creates a womb like environment , the product is full of growth factors that speed the transformation of stem cells into mature cells..i think the prp is placing extra stem cells near the acell and hair folicle but one of tb4s benifits is that it stimulates the production of stem cells so in theory, acell injections and tb4 should work as well or better


Interesting about the Acells. Self injecting has opened up a world of new options to try. I read about Acell partly regrowing a mans finger. Always wanted to try the stuff, but i didnt think it was available to buy privately. I will try acells too just not right now. I want to see where tb4 takes me first.



Date Posted: 06/19/2012 11:16 AM
Posted By: alpha (Occasional Poster)

Love the momentum we have going here on peptides. For those chiming inabt topicals, the is a truckload of difference with subQ and topicals,save that for other threads..we are entering the future here and hair is only one component to peptide potential.

I selfishly wish u guys wld isolate one compound at a time so we Cld tease out the benefits of a single formula. That said, I'm sure that there are synergistic effects, as this is well documented with peptides.

Typically smaller more frequent dosing is best, but the scalp is sensitive so it may need breaks. I bet the swiss lab, for example does bigger dosing less frequent due mostly to convenience. With self administration perhaps one Cld shift to more often??



Date Posted: 06/19/2012 12:34 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: alpha

Love the momentum we have going here on peptides. For those chiming inabt topicals, the is a truckload of difference with subQ and topicals,save that for other threads..we are entering the future here and hair is only one component to peptide potential.



I selfishly wish u guys wld isolate one compound at a time so we Cld tease out the benefits of a single formula. That said, I'm sure that there are synergistic effects, as this is well documented with peptides.



Typically smaller more frequent dosing is best, but the scalp is sensitive so it may need breaks. I bet the swiss lab, for example does bigger dosing less frequent due mostly to convenience. With self administration perhaps one Cld shift to more often??


Yes it could be a convenience reason for the swiss lab doing big doses. But maybe I will know what sort of effect it has after the first 4 weeks of dosing as that's when cosmetic results are supposed to begin to kick in. If it does not I will give it another week then start daily dosing after week 5. But im hoping best results are gotten by injecting once a week as that would save alot of hassle



Date Posted: 06/19/2012 04:13 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

i really hope this works because it would just be better for everyone if we can regrow with a series of injections and need just a touch up run every few months...***** all this dumping the kitchen sink on our heads



Date Posted: 06/19/2012 04:15 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

anyone wanna take a guess how it will work(if it does)..im guessing that it will thicken up diffuse thinned areas a lot , return miniturized hairs back to full size and maybe grow some new hairs via the stem cell stimulation but for completely bald areas like temples, it will only be slightly effective..thats how i see it and im fine with that



Date Posted: 06/19/2012 07:19 PM
Posted By: alpha (Occasional Poster)

Jumbo I think that is a likely positive outcome. A super aggressive positive outcome wld be serious regeneration over a few years to turn back the clock 5-10 years of aging of the scalp/follicular health. Good responders will see this, I predict. The majority, say 65pct of ppl Cld have more likely what u describe, maybe 3-5 years age reversal with longterm use?



Date Posted: 06/19/2012 08:26 PM
Posted By: alpha (Occasional Poster)

Meant jimbo sorry..spell correct. You are an innovator. Side note (not totally for this forum/thread) GHK peptide is the most I frigging subQ I think now. Only a select few just trying it now on the blogs



Date Posted: 06/19/2012 08:32 PM
Posted By: marklc2004 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: alpha

Meant jimbo sorry..spell correct. You are an innovator. Side note (not totally for this forum/thread) GHK peptide is the most I frigging subQ I think now. Only a select few just trying it now on the blogs


people are using ahk copper peptides.



Date Posted: 06/19/2012 09:53 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

we need better ORAL drugs... I can't be bothered using that many topicals



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 12:48 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Originally posted by: marklc2004

Originally posted by: alpha



Meant jimbo sorry..spell correct. You are an innovator. Side note (not totally for this forum/thread) GHK peptide is the most I frigging subQ I think now. Only a select few just trying it now on the blogs




people are using ahk copper peptides.



But who is injecting it sub q into the area??? With all Peptides, I have a HARD time believing that any cream will deliver the peptides to the target area nearly as well a sub q injection. Thoughts, marklc2004?



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 12:51 PM
Posted By: marklc2004 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: RSR40

Originally posted by: marklc2004



Originally posted by: alpha







Meant jimbo sorry..spell correct. You are an innovator. Side note (not totally for this forum/thread) GHK peptide is the most I frigging subQ I think now. Only a select few just trying it now on the blogs








people are using ahk copper peptides.






But who is injecting it sub q into the area??? With all Peptides, I have a HARD time believing that any cream will deliver the peptides to the target area nearly as well a sub q injection. Thoughts, marklc2004?


i would never imject anything in my scalp lol. ahk in clinicals studies used a cream an it was effective! there is a limit to my madness, no injections, no spiro, and any other hardcore experimental hairloss treatments.



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 01:03 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

The way I see it is if you are going to use creams or topicals then you are already absorbing it though the skin to some degree same way your skin acts like a sponge when exposed to water or any liquids although not as effectively. My point is anyone that thinks that they are playing it safe by only using liquid topicals or creams are kidding themselves as it all enters into the system to some degree. TB4 is too thick an agent to enter the system even with a liquid vehicle therefore it must be injected to have any effect. I'm looking forward to tomorrow as I expect my tb4 to arrive everything else is in place. It takes someone willing to step into the unknown not knowing to move forward every now an again



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 01:07 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

I've spent the last couple days trying to see what we have going here. I believe with access to countless growth factors and peptides, etc., there really is a potential for some new types of "underground" treatments. The TB4 seems to be the BIGGIE, but supporting growth factors could really prime the environment in the hair folicle. I am not going to be the best person to see results on, cause honestly, I have TONS of hair now from Fin and Minox, but I am still going to use this soon becasue I want to see if there is any way to thicken my whirl/crown and left temple. Those are the only areas that have not responded 100% to the Fin and Minox. Cosmetically, for 40, I have no recognizable balding now, but I can tell that the hair on crown is still somewhat miniaturized and I am not really seeing any real changes anymore (27 months treatments).

I have concluded that the TB4 is only going to be stable for about 6-7 days after reconstitution in plain sterile water, but closer to a month in BW (refrigerated off course). Also, it is important to request that the peptide be shipped in a freeze pak. Most of the companies will do it for a few bucks extra and it could be critical to prevent heat degradation prior to reconstitution. I also believe it is probably going to require about 2-4mg (weekly) for a month and then probably that dose 1x per month as maintenance untill desired growth occurs.

If you have been studying on this compound, you will notice that is is WIDELY used in Horse Racing and most trainers swear by it for all kinds of benefits overall to muscle, tendons, injury prevention and recovery and even dramatic endurance increases. Veterinary grade preps are also on the market. I guess we might get some hair and be ready for the olympics too! LOL!!!

Ryan



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 01:18 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: RSR40

I've spent the last couple days trying to see what we have going here. I believe with access to countless growth factors and peptides, etc., there really is a potential for some new types of "underground" treatments. The TB4 seems to be the BIGGIE, but supporting growth factors could really prime the environment in the hair folicle. I am not going to be the best person to see results on, cause honestly, I have TONS of hair now from Fin and Minox, but I am still going to use this soon becasue I want to see if there is any way to thicken my whirl/crown and left temple. Those are the only areas that have not responded 100% to the Fin and Minox. Cosmetically, for 40, I have no recognizable balding now, but I can tell that the hair on crown is still somewhat miniaturized and I am not really seeing any real changes anymore (27 months treatments).



I have concluded that the TB4 is only going to be stable for about 6-7 days after reconstitution in plain sterile water, but closer to a month in BW (refrigerated off course). Also, it is important to request that the peptide be shipped in a freeze pak. Most of the companies will do it for a few bucks extra and it could be critical to prevent heat degradation prior to reconstitution. I also believe it is probably going to require about 2-4mg (weekly) for a month and then probably that dose 1x per month as maintenance untill desired growth occurs.



If you have been studying on this compound, you will notice that is is WIDELY used in Horse Racing and most trainers swear by it for all kinds of benefits overall to muscle, tendons, injury prevention and recovery and even dramatic endurance increases. Veterinary grade preps are also on the market. I guess we might get some hair and be ready for the olympics too! LOL!!!



Ryan


I never requested my tb4/500 to be delivered in a freeze pak but it should be here by tomorrow & it went out on monday. Most the guys in professionalmuscleforum never mention getting a freeze delivery and they are having positive results so im hoping it wont be a problem if I put it in the fridge when it arrive. Thing is RSR should i put the ten bottles i ordered in the freezer or the fridge? Hoping to have hair like a fkning rockstar by the start of the Olympics lol



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 01:21 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Marklc2004,

Interesting... Out of everyone, you would be the last person I would suspect that has a limit to their hair regrowth madness... LOL

You DO inject Testosterone Enanthate into your ass, correct? Human grade or Underground? Have you ever used GH or IGF-1??? I have actually injected that stuff right into my biceps before... YOUCH!!!

Since the product we are discussing is a Peptide, I have almost no worries about scalp injections. The scalp won't even hurt! If you want to see madness, you shoud read this...

http://www.professionalmuscle....cosmetic-peptide.html

Remember, bodybuilders have been pushing the limits for YEARS and we can thank them for that or there wouldn't even be access to most of these RC's at low prices to play around with.

Since you seem to be interested in anabolics, hopefully you will tune in on Monday night online as I will be featured on Fitphysiqueradio.com at 8:30pm and I will be covering a lot of stuff and touching on hair loss quite a bit. We aren't selling anything on there, so it's just for info.



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 01:46 PM
Posted By: marklc2004 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: RSR40

Marklc2004,



Interesting... Out of everyone, you would be the last person I would suspect that has a limit to their hair regrowth madness... LOL



You DO inject Testosterone Enanthate into your ass, correct? Human grade or Underground? Have you ever used GH or IGF-1??? I have actually injected that stuff right into my biceps before... YOUCH!!!



Since the product we are discussing is a Peptide, I have almost no worries about scalp injections. The scalp won't even hurt! If you want to see madness, you shoud read this...



http://www.professionalmuscle....ic-peptide.html



Remember, bodybuilders have been pushing the limits for YEARS and we can thank them for that or there wouldn't even be access to most of these RC's at low prices to play around with.



Since you seem to be interested in anabolics, hopefully you will tune in on Monday night online as I will be featured on Fitphysiqueradio.com at 8:30pm and I will be covering a lot of stuff and touching on hair loss quite a bit. We aren't selling anything on there, so it's just for info.


i admit i dont know much about injected peptides in the scalp. it just sounds extreme to me. yes, i have injected test e. i'm getting impressive results with my current regimen.



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 01:50 PM
Posted By: marklc2004 (Accomplished Poster)

my hairline is filling in. http://immortalhair.forumandco...2p45-hairline-regrowth



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 01:58 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Hair looks good, how bout the physique?

My favorite stack used to be TE 250mgs week, Turinabol 30mgs daily, Anavar 20mgs daily and 4 IU HgH. I NEVER used big doses and haven't juiced in a LONG time. I gave it up for my hair TBH. I would usually be about 200-205 at 6-8% BF. Now I am like 184 at 10-12% and I am WEAK... LOL. Also 40, so it's all relative now.



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 02:06 PM
Posted By: marklc2004 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: RSR40

Hair looks good, how bout the physique?



My favorite stack used to be TE 250mgs week, Turinabol 30mgs daily, Anavar 20mgs daily and 4 IU HgH. I NEVER used big doses and haven't juiced in a LONG time. I gave it up for my hair TBH. I would usually be about 200-205 at 6-8% BF. Now I am like 184 at 10-12% and I am WEAK... LOL. Also 40, so it's all relative now.


i'm in great shape less than 10%. thats my stack lol! i low dose test e with 40mg tbol, and last 4 weeks 30mg of anavar. post cycle has always been major problem for me.



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 02:07 PM
Posted By: marklc2004 (Accomplished Poster)

btw thats the only cycle thats easy on the hairline



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 02:16 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Not THE ONLY... But I knew that 15 years ago anyway.



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 02:26 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Honestly, 300 EQ with Finasteride, Tbol, SARMS and GW501516 is the shit and cutting edge too. And safer on hair as a stack. Anavar actually worries me a bit as it is already reduced and more affinity to AR than Tbol. Tbol is a dream. Because of the 4 and 5 ring modification there is no possibility of reduction or aromatization and many of the positive effects are mediated through lowering cortisol and shift in mineral balance leading to intracellular volumization.

T-bol and Nandrolone without a 5 AR inhibitor is the safest on hair.



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 02:52 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

And NEVER do Winstrol... My G-d I did it back in 2005 before I had any hair loss and I was shedding like 500 hair per day. Even Trenbolone didn't scalp me like that!!!


Here's a stack if you wanna GO BALD in a year, LOL

Test 1500mg week
Tren 600mg per week
Winstrol 100mg per day (injection)
Halotestin 50mgs daily
MethylTrienolone 1mg daily
HgH 10 IU daily
Insulin 10-30 IU daily (PWO)
T3 and T4
Clenbuterol
GW 501516


Add in some Letrozole and presto... You go bald.

Ironically, this is the cycle my good friend is on RIGHT now getting ready for the Nationals. He will do some tweaking to the Test as you must drop aromatizing androgens a few weeks out. He will up the "harder" androgens and increase the doses of AI inhibitors as well as add in diuretics and even sleep with Biodyne smeared on his waist with saran wrap wrapped around him. No joke...



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 02:54 PM
Posted By: marklc2004 (Accomplished Poster)

dbol is BAD bad for your hair as well. if u value your life stay away from anadrol.



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 02:59 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

This is the guy on that stack... Pic is from last year



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 03:12 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Ok, now I am wanting to do juice again! LOL... Last off topic post. Here is the last time I weighed over 200. About 205-208 and about 9-10% (holding a bit of H2O) and standing 5'11". This was 2010 and I was on 150mg TE HRT dose with no other supps. I went Au Natural right after this and got on hairloss treatments soon after.



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 04:17 PM
Posted By: alpha (Occasional Poster)

what type of angle do you guys reckon to be using for the scalp? a heavy pinch of the skin or what is the plan? don't listen to the prudent/haters..this is a most significant trial, and much more of a "precise" attempt than as Dr. P says "killing a fly with a shot gun" like overall dht inhibitors are.

-i assume we expect the systemic benefits of TB4 in addition to having it directed right at the scalp? what % of the effectiveness do we expect in each place? i.e. of the goods TB4 can bring, we expect to have 70% concentrated at the scalp and 30% systemic? i ask b/c if 100% was systemic, you could simply inject in the stomach or ass.

before i meant to say that GHK is a very interesting peptide, as an aside.



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 06:33 PM
Posted By: jeffwode (Prolific Poster)

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2011/0281802.html

so what's the crack here? someone has the patent for tb4 use with hairloss? don't really have the time to read it, but had a brief look. interesting for someone like me who knows nothing about tb4.



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 07:02 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

"Thymosin beta4 increases hair growth by activation of hair follicle stem cells;"

if it truly does all that then REGROWTH IS GUARANTEED 100%

plzz someone test it fast, this looks very exciting!



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 07:05 PM
Posted By: alpha (Occasional Poster)

I read the whole thing. Seems that tb4, tb1. And the rest of the mix elongated the growth phases in vitro. For more, we should contact the doctors either rwith the truth or perhaps under the guise that we are considering buying their patent or something..



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 07:17 PM
Posted By: marklc2004 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: alpha

I read the whole thing. Seems that tb4, tb1. And the rest of the mix elongated the growth phases in vitro. For more, we should contact the doctors either rwith the truth or perhaps under the guise that we are considering buying their patent or something..


lol. it can be produced. once smitty smitty sees this thread he'll add to his regimen. he knows many sources.



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 07:37 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: alpha

I read the whole thing. Seems that tb4, tb1. And the rest of the mix elongated the growth phases in vitro. For more, we should contact the doctors either rwith the truth or perhaps under the guise that we are considering buying their patent or something..


what are you talking about? this isn't some "hair stimulator".. this thymosin stuff works on a cellular level -> stimulate follicle cells -> more progenitor cells -> larger follicles -> more hair?



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 07:54 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

exactly....it sort of works the way histogen does in the sense that it grows follicle stem cells and allows hairs to mature and new hairs to grow...if this works we can be looking at tb4 injections once or twice a week for a month or two and then 6 months of once a month and then perhaps maybe done forever or touch ups once or twice a year if you combine it with something to protect the new hair like fin or dut.... there will be no bullchit dependent hair like we see with minox, we will have new hairs formed and you should be able to drop tb4 once the hairs start growing and if you protect that new hair with fin or dut, you may not need anything else...so basically a few months of tb4 treatment and if you just use fin you can keep that hair..that sounds a hell of a lot better than using all this other crap....i still think its gonna be great for filling in diffused areas but on severe norwoods and bald temples it may not work as well, at least thats how i see this playing out. i wrote the clinic in switzerland who is already doing tb4 scalp injections and they said the results are very good, and the longer you do them the bettter the results.



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 08:11 PM
Posted By: fuzzy warbles (Regular Poster)

How soon until you guys see results?

-------------------------
Read, read, read. Then read some more.



Date Posted: 06/20/2012 09:08 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69
i wrote the clinic in switzerland who is already doing tb4 scalp injections and they said the results are very good, and the longer you do them the bettter the results.


I don't believe you :shocked:

why would they reveal their results when they spent so much money on studies?

Edited: 06/20/2012 at 09:14 PM by 2020_2


Date Posted: 06/21/2012 03:23 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: summersnow

Originally posted by: RSR40



I've spent the last couple days trying to see what we have going here. I believe with access to countless growth factors and peptides, etc., there really is a potential for some new types of "underground" treatments. The TB4 seems to be the BIGGIE, but supporting growth factors could really prime the environment in the hair folicle. I am not going to be the best person to see results on, cause honestly, I have TONS of hair now from Fin and Minox, but I am still going to use this soon becasue I want to see if there is any way to thicken my whirl/crown and left temple. Those are the only areas that have not responded 100% to the Fin and Minox. Cosmetically, for 40, I have no recognizable balding now, but I can tell that the hair on crown is still somewhat miniaturized and I am not really seeing any real changes anymore (27 months treatments).







I have concluded that the TB4 is only going to be stable for about 6-7 days after reconstitution in plain sterile water, but closer to a month in BW (refrigerated off course). Also, it is important to request that the peptide be shipped in a freeze pak. Most of the companies will do it for a few bucks extra and it could be critical to prevent heat degradation prior to reconstitution. I also believe it is probably going to require about 2-4mg (weekly) for a month and then probably that dose 1x per month as maintenance untill desired growth occurs.







If you have been studying on this compound, you will notice that is is WIDELY used in Horse Racing and most trainers swear by it for all kinds of benefits overall to muscle, tendons, injury prevention and recovery and even dramatic endurance increases. Veterinary grade preps are also on the market. I guess we might get some hair and be ready for the olympics too! LOL!!!







Ryan




I never requested my tb4/500 to be delivered in a freeze pak but it should be here by tomorrow & it went out on monday. Most the guys in professionalmuscleforum never mention getting a freeze delivery and they are having positive results so im hoping it wont be a problem if I put it in the fridge when it arrive. Thing is RSR should i put the ten bottles i ordered in the freezer or the fridge? Hoping to have hair like a fkning rockstar by the start of the Olympics lol


Ok for the second time anyone willing to answer my posted question about whether to put my peptides in the fridge or the actual freezer? Before the subject falls of the wagon again.



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 04:53 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Ok just did my first 5mgs of tb4 with 4 ml of sterile water. My injections were an amateur start to say the least lol. I went in on an angle with my left temple to begin with. I went too far in about half an inch but it didnt hurt. I squeezed the syringe but the liquid was tilted so i didnt get a proper shot at it. Injected the left temple the second time this time i got the tb4 into the scalp. Im not going to lie it leaves a bump like you banged your head off something & its very hard to control the dept of the needle when squeezing down the syringe. I did my crown an left another bump there & finally I did the middle of my head but this time decided to inject in vertically instead of an angle. It is much easier injecting vertically an its easier controlled with depth. I don't feel any burning sensation I just feel a little pump going on probably the blood rushing to my head. I think it only left bumps because I went too far into my head with the needle. I will be ordering 1ml syringes for next meek & 30g needles. Onwards and upwards. Good luck Jimbo & RSR it's not easy injecting into the scalp for the first time as in stumbling to get the right angle to do this but im sure we will get really good at it in the coming weeks th more we do it. That's week one down for me Thursday the 21st of June 2012

Now can someone answer as to whether these peptides need to be in the fridge or freezer?

The bumps have already went down an are almost gone. Im beginning to think it was just the liquid beneath the scalp that formed a bubble like shape as the tb4 liquid spread under the scalp when i injected it. I think the best way to approach this is by doing as many as 20 to 30 small incisions all over the scalp particularly around problem areas using up all 4 ml of the liquid with 5mgs of tb4. I know I said I would leave it a week before my next session but i think I will go ahead an do that tomorrow. Also I just checked out how prp was injected on youtube & the doctor doing it was going in as much as half an inch into the scalp also so that depth mustn't be much of a issue.

Edit again I decided not to give it another day and went ahead & injected another 5mgs of tb4. This time I did about 20 incisions. expect to bleed. I had blood running down the side of my head by the time I was done with the 20 incisions. I wont be injecting again till next friday. I already have about 8 to 10 mgs of tb inside my scalp. I am definitely ordering finer needles for next week. Does anyone know if you can get needles that are 3 to 4 mm in depth it would save alot of guess work when self injecting into the scalp. I can use the blood on my scalp to style my hair & save money on gel.

Edited: 06/21/2012 at 06:59 AM by summersnow



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 08:45 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

nice, yea those small bumps are to be expected. they should go away a few minutes to an hour or so after the injection.



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 10:23 AM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

holy shit you weren't supposed to start bleeding... HSC don't make you do that



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 10:50 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

he injected like 20 times, of course he gonna bleed a little..look at the videos of the hair transplant doctors injecting acell and crap, the need to hold the towel in one hand and the needle in the other because of blood...dont listen to this moron.



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 10:56 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

my tb4 should be here any minute btw, im gona do something slightly different, im gonna do 5 mg every 3 days, hey, aside from your temples, do you have any obvious thin spots where you can tell that the tb4 is thickening hair other than bald temples? i dont think its gonna be magic for bald temples but anything can happen. all i know is that any results should come faster than say anti androgen therapy because it also makes your hair grow faster. if you have an obvious diffused area thats where im most curious how it works..you should see results there first before any temple regrowth.



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 11:24 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Hey Jimbo yes my crown is diffused at the minute but it was a hell of alot worse before i took propecia last year. If this tb4 thickens the hairs on my crown I will be more than happy. My temples need a bit of work I have a bit of a v sahpe going on at the front again if it just thickens up the hairs within the temple areas then I am satisfied. FYI 2020_2 the bleeding stops within 3 to 5 minutes, I feel absolutely no pain from them injections & if you bothered to check out the prp videos you would have seen that the patients were bleeding all over multiple incisions. Jimbo there is a device called autoject 2 for self injecting & it controls the depth of the needle to what suits best. I am buying it now & will use it next week to control the dosage & incisions better mate. Also the bumps are completely gone.



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 12:02 PM
Posted By: alpha (Occasional Poster)

Really like the autoject idea. I think once peptides are mixed (reconstituted) they shld be kept in the fridge. When in raw powder format, they shld kept in the freezer for max stability.



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 12:31 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Hey alpha, yeah I contacted the supplier and he said leave the powder in the freezers so thats what im doing now. I think its best to use the whole vial up after reconstituted that way your not needing to leave syringes in the fridge and its just less hassel. But I will experiment doses in about 6 weeks depending on results. I am feeling really positive about this after injecting today to me being able to self inject without cringing was a big accomplishment considering ive never used a needle in my life. The autoject is just going to make it so much easier next time & I ordered 29g needles for next week aswell.



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 01:21 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

jimbo is right, injecting near thin spots will produce results(if any) faster than trying to regrow bald areas



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 02:06 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

http://www.arsmedical.info/tem...features/genesis.html

99 euros

anyone know anything about it?



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 02:20 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

http://www.thymosinbeta4.com/home

Thymosin Beta 4 is a naturally occurring peptide. It is found in high concentrations in blood platelets, wound fluid and other tissues in the body. T?4 is not a growth factor; rather, it is a major actin regulating peptide. T?4 has been found to play an important role in protection, regeneration and remodeling of injured or damaged tissues. The gene for T?4 has also been found to be one of the first to be upregulated after a wound occurs.




Date Posted: 06/21/2012 04:07 PM
Posted By: Josejames123 (Occasional Poster)

There are reports that Thymosin Beta 4 causes an increase in the existing number of cancer cells. So in my opinion its better to wait rather than lose your life because of it. We already are in a good position in human hitory with regards to MPB. Just wait and let the pros do their job. They will come up with something soon

-------------------------
Current treatments

Fin-(Started Sep 2009- Stopped May 2012)
Dutas-0.5mg
Min-10% at night
Nizoral 2% * 3 per week
Himalaya AntiHairloss shampoo





Date Posted: 06/21/2012 04:18 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

^ he's right. What makes you think that thymosin will only act on HAIR FOLLICLE STEM CELLS and not on anything else? How does Histogen deal with this?



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 04:19 PM
Posted By: Kirby (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: 2020_2

http://www.arsmedical.info/tem...es/genesis.html



99 euros



anyone know anything about it?

It's available in shampoo form? Good find! Anyone willing to take a gamble and give it a go?



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 04:24 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

those reports are bullchit....i mean here is a report showing the exact opposite.http://www.haematologica.org/content/95/1/163.full i believe they first thought tb4 helped cancer grow because it was found in larger number near tumors and then they realized it was in larger numbers because of the cancer(tb4 was produced to fight cancer) tb4 does not cause cancer and no one has ever suggested it causes cancer, it was only suggested that if you already have cancer it might make it grow faster. hell, anything that is good for growth will help and existing cancer grow. besides, we are not using this as a daily thing forever, we are gonna use it a couple months and then just every now and then for maintainance. its as safe as propecia( propecia has reports of causing cancer also btw) its hard to find something not accused of causing cancer from coffee to red meat.



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 04:29 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

btw, topical tb4 is snake oil..it cant penetrate the skin and even if a little could, the amounts needed in a topical would cost thousand of dollars not to mention that its only stable in a liquid for a week....any topical claiming to use tb4 as a main ingredient might as well just be thrown in the garbage,



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 04:36 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

hey 2002, then dont use it ..what do you want me to tell you??...what i can say is that out of all the people on this forum you annoy me the most because you contribute nothing and just talk chit...its because of you im not taking or planning on posting photos.. a holes like you will talk chit until someone gets results and then you will be the first one to start injecting tb4..oh you and mark...mark uses every topical , fda approved or chinese experimental(made god knows where with god knows what, and only god knows what it is)most of these chemicals not only can never be identified for sure, but even if they were what he thinks they are, most have never even been trialed on humans...he does all this while injecting steroids but he draws the line with tb4???..a substance that occurs naturally in the body, has been tested on humans and the benefits are proven...ha ha ha ha ,,the guys a clown and if this works he will be the first to be doing it ..if it works you will see me not posting on these forums anymore...thats how youll know it works. youll get no before and after photos from me,



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 04:45 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: Kirby

It's available in shampoo form? Good find! Anyone willing to take a gamble and give it a go?


ha it's probably a scam anyways.... your scalp is impenetrable for TB4 molecule since it's too heavy that's why you need to use needles to actually inject it. Shampoos and topicals won't work



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 04:47 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

hey 2002, then dont use it ..what do you want me to tell you??...what i can say is that out of all the people on this forum you annoy me the most because you contribute nothing and just talk chit...its because of you im not taking or planning on posting photos.. a holes like you will talk chit until someone gets results and then you will be the first one to start injecting tb4..oh you and mark...mark uses every topical , fda approved or chinese experimental(made god knows where with god knows what, and only god knows what it is)most of these chemicals not only can never be identified for sure, but even if they were what he thinks they are, most have never even been trialed on humans...he does all this while injecting steroids but he draws the line with tb4???..a substance that occurs naturally in the body, has been tested on humans and the benefits are proven...ha ha ha ha ,,the guys a clown and if this works he will be the first to be doing it ..if it works you will see me not posting on these forums anymore...thats how youll know it works. youll get no before and after photos from me,


i'm not talking shit wow... I'm just asking you a question since you seem to know a lot about this.

my question was: why would tb4 ACT on hair follicle stem cells ONLY? What makes you think it won't grow anything at the skin or brain region? How do you isolate its effects to follicle stem cells only? Histogen somehow does it but how?



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 04:48 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

and just for the record, i may think mark is stupid for using all those experimentals while saying he would never use tb4, at least hes trying something outside the box, at least hes innovating and going where no one has gone before...this will get results so for that i thank him.. you on the other hand 2020, you are worthless. this forum and im sure the lives of everyone you know would just keep going on if you were to suddenly disappear , might even go on for the better...maybe im being too harsh but there is just something about your posts that bother me.



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 04:54 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

"my question was: why would tb4 ACT on hair follicle stem cells ONLY? What makes you think it won't grow anything at the skin or brain region? How do you isolate its effects to follicle stem cells only? Histogen somehow does it but how?"

i dont even know why i am answering this but what the hell,....... are you asking what limits its growing potential will have? like will you grow an extra appendage from where you apply it? it doesnt work that way, it helps progenitor cells multiply and reduces inflamation and speeds cell growth...its not gonna grow anything that wasnt gonna already grow...hair loss is theorized to be a defect at the stem cell level where progenitor cells are produced(those are the cells that go on to become various cells in the body) if progenitor cells are not being produced in large enough numbers in the follicle, you will have less follicles..our skin and most cells in our body and constantly splitting...tb4 helps this along and stimulates progenitor cells in the process..this is the theory of why it helps with hair loss. when the old hair cells die and are ready to be replaced, they will be replaced with healthier cells.



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 05:14 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

omg that wasn't my question.... I don't doubt that TB4 will work but I'm just saying if it grows hair by STIMULATING STEM CELLS, what makes you think it won't grow other things by STIMULATING THEIR STEM CELLS??? How can you ISOLATE ITS GROWING POWER to hair follicles only? Do you understand what I'm saying? stop your raging



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 05:27 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

your right, the entire branch of medicine called "stem cell therapy" should be abandoned because youre worried that you might grow something rogue...forget using tb4 to help your body produce its own stem cells, there are doctors injecting foreign stem cells to cure diseases with no issues. take a hike, why are you even here, you are not trying it , you dont think it will work and you are just being annoying. its because of people like you that i wil be happy with my results and letting the rest of you bald.



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 05:40 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

your right, the entire branch of medicine called "stem cell therapy" should be abandoned because youre worried that you might grow something rogue...forget using tb4 to help your body produce its own stem cells, there are doctors injecting foreign stem cells to cure diseases with no issues. take a hike, why are you even here, you are not trying it , you dont think it will work and you are just being annoying. its because of people like you that i wil be happy with my results and letting the rest of you bald.


you're a *****ing idiot I keep telling you things but you don't listen. Right from my last post:

I don't doubt that TB4 will work


yes!!! TB4 will grow hair I was convinced 5 pages ago. MY QUESTION WAS: WHAT MAKES YOU THINK IT WON'T STIMULATE STEM CELLS FROM OTHER THINGS AND GROW SOMETHING UNWANTED BESIDES FOLLICLES??



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 05:55 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

just so you know, i just lit a candle and said the words..i have put a hex on you...your horses will go lame, your cows will go dry and your head will go bald"


thinner, thinner, thinnnnnnnneeeeeeerrrrrrrrrr



Date Posted: 06/21/2012 06:32 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

just so you know, i just lit a candle and said the words..i have put a hex on you...your horses will go lame, your cows will go dry and your head will go bald"





thinner, thinner, thinnnnnnnneeeeeeerrrrrrrrrr


have you gone crazy!?!? answer my question I swear to god I will hunt you down and destroy you with my friend Vin Diesel



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 12:18 AM
Posted By: Josejames123 (Occasional Poster)

Heyy Jimbo, I know for a fact most of us carry cancerous cells in our body, only when it crosses a certain limit it is diagnosed as cancer. I know this for a fact after dealing with many leading researchers in this field after my mum had been diagnosed with breast cancer a couple of years back, she is totally fine now, my point is what makes you sure that this specifically acts on hair follicles.

-------------------------
Current treatments

Fin-(Started Sep 2009- Stopped May 2012)
Dutas-0.5mg
Min-10% at night
Nizoral 2% * 3 per week
Himalaya AntiHairloss shampoo





Date Posted: 06/22/2012 06:05 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

how do i know that? because i researched it..tb4 had a weak link to cancer a while ago because they thought excess tb4 found near tumors was helping them grow until it was learned that it was actually helping to shrink the tumor..tb4 is an anti anflammitory so anywhere that you have an injury there will be higher levels of tb4, it doesnt mean tb4 causes the injury... actually there are more recent studies that suggest tb4 fights cancer, not cause it..tb4 has been already trialed in humans and proven safe an effective...they would not have allowed a full fda human trial if tb-4 carried a serious cancer risk and like i said, coffee has been found to cause cancer, knowing that, would you drink coffee if it was certain it would grow your hair back??? i think just about everyone on this board would because the risk of coffee actually causing cancer is so small its almost not even worth thinking about and the same goes for tb4..actually, with tb4 the evidence points more towards it fighting cancer so not only do i feel safe from cancer when taking tb4, but i might just take up smoking now too.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_thymosins



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 06:07 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

btw, you didnt happen to hear someplace that tb-4 causes cancer, you googled tb4 and cancer and you found a paper suggesting a connection....if you google cancer and just about anything you take on a daily basis you can find a cancer connection. use your brain more and google less.



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 06:21 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

look up human growth hormone,...there are about as many papers claiming that it causes cancer as their are papers claiming that it cures it.



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 06:39 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

cigarettes contain over 40 known cancer causing agents..if a study was released tomorrow that smoking a cigarette once a week helps grow hair, most of you would smoke a pack a day so stop the crap...tb4 is 100 percent safe



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 08:21 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

There is always a handful of people so quick to jump on any negative aspect they can find that they will dig up just about anything to actively seek out why it shouldn't work instead of focusing on why it could work & how we could enhance it's potential.
You may not see it but you are behaving just like those propecia protesters trying to fear monger people into not taking a proven drug. They are not actually interested in the fact that propecia improves the lives of 85-90% of people who take it because they are blinded by their own bitterness & selfishness due to the fact that it never worked for them.
They are actively seeking out not for a solution to the problems but to take away what is working for others because the envy is just killing them, an I see no honor in their protest.

If you ever want to find some kind of peace & contentment with anything in life not just your hair then you need to stop focusing all your energy into the problem & start actively seeking & supporting the potential solutions especially if others are willing to pave the way an risk themselves before you. Do not get in their way by fear mongering & start focusing on the positive aspects here.

Stop fear mongering & start supporting the people who are happy to take a calculated risk for better quality of life. No-one ever got anywhere standing still. If your not happy with your situation then it's your responsibility to take a chance find a solution for yourself, don't try an stand in the way of others who are trying to improve their own lives by using fear mongering tactics against them, fear mongering never helped anybody & lets face it your not fear mongering because you are genuinely worried for them, you dont know me as a friend none of us know each other as friends you have no emotional investment on the welfare of any of us on this forum. It's time to grow up & wake up to the fact the reason why your fear mongering is because yous are afraid of being left behind if it does work, when infact the opposite will happen as it could be a potential solution to everybody's hairloss or at least a very valuable asset.
Certain members of this forum needs to start supporting each-other instead of cutting each-other down every time someone tries something different to them or goes beyond what they are willing to try first.
I am going to purposely ignore any continued fighting from you guys because it's just not helping or healthy.

Edited: 06/22/2012 at 08:27 AM by summersnow



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 08:35 AM
Posted By: Josejames123 (Occasional Poster)

Heyy Jimo buddy , I am not here to start a with you or anyone. I just want to keep my hair as much as you do. Nor am I here to induce fear to anyone. I totally support everyone who is going in for new treatments. But just be safe, know the hard facts and then make a decision. Cheers

-------------------------
Current treatments

Fin-(Started Sep 2009- Stopped May 2012)
Dutas-0.5mg
Min-10% at night
Nizoral 2% * 3 per week
Himalaya AntiHairloss shampoo





Date Posted: 06/22/2012 09:13 AM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

holy shit jimbo you ignored his question once again:

"my point is what makes you sure that this specifically acts on hair follicles."

???



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 01:19 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

dude, are you a moron? i already answered your question...i said it doest specifically act on hair follicles...it helps the body produce progenitor cells for hair folicles( balding hair is missing those cells and normal non balding scalps have plenty of them)i also helps the body produce progenitor cells for everything else i imagine...i dont understand what you are suggesting? perhaps the body might create too many progenitor cells? thats impossible, ...maybe you are suggesting that it will create progenitior cells somewhere else in the body like the skin?? well great!!!! youll have better skin!!!because every organ in our bodies produces them on a regular basis and in case you didnt already know, tb4 ALREADY! exists in the body....we are just placing some extra tb4 on the scalp where it is needed to get follicles to come back to life....its like testosterone...we all already have it..but guys who wanna gain muscle fast, take a little extra from time to time to build muscle or combat an illness...human growth hormone the same thing, we all have it but if you need more for some medical reason or otherwise, its benificial to take it...hgh makes you grow tall before puberty, that doesnt mean when you take hgh as an adult you will keep growing...body builders would be 100 feet tall if that was the case.,..the body is far more complex than you are giving it credit for...just like tb4 stimulates progenitor cell production there is almost certainly a mechinisim in the body to halt the production of those same cells when there is a risk of too many being produced...its actually stupid to even talk about this because tb4 has been studied at great length on animals and in humans and no one was even retarded enough to suggest that tb4 would cause a stem cell division that could run a muck ..you and you alone carry this fear and i think its because you dont understand how its supposed to help..instead of asking stupid questions why dont you google and read yourself. you are very annoying, when i ignored your comment the first 2 times it should have told you something.



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 01:27 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

"holy shit jimbo you ignored his question once again:

"my point is what makes you sure that this specifically acts on hair follicles."



and just so you know, im under no obligation to answer your stupid questions



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 01:28 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

dude, are you a moron?


do you think Vin Diesel is a moron?


Originally posted by: jimbo69
i already answered your question...i said it doest specifically act on hair follicles...


that's what I thought...

Originally posted by: jimbo69
it helps the body produce progenitor cells for hair folicles( balding hair is missing those cells and normal non balding scalps have plenty of them)


I know that...

Originally posted by: jimbo69
i also helps the body produce progenitor cells for everything else i imagine...i dont understand what you are suggesting? perhaps the body might create too many progenitor cells? thats impossible, ...maybe you are suggesting that it will create progenitior cells somewhere else in the body like the skin??


something like that yeah since it doesn't act specifically on your follicles. Could be some complications and unwanted effects later on? hm?


Originally posted by: jimbo69
just like tb4 stimulates progenitor cell production there is almost certainly a mechinisim in the body to halt the production of those same cells when there is a risk of too many being produced...


that's all I wanted to know!!!

Cells won't respond to TB4 where there is enough of progenitor cells so only hair follicles will respond. If that's true then great!



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 03:37 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

g



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 04:11 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Just for kicks I googled Minoxidil and cancer and sure enough there were some hits... I am more persuaded that TB4 would be beneficial for cancer than bad. There are quite a few bobybuilders using peptides for several years now and there is a great track record. Like anything, we really don't know. The fight going on with 2020 is comical as he seems to be playing both sides to get reactions. I wouldn't worry Jimbo or Summersnow and 2020, well you get the benefit of letting other guys test it before your eyes and that is actually pretty cool if it pans out. As for Marklc2004, I don't get his rational at all, but not my problem. This forum is like a reality show for MPB guys and the entertainment is better than the advices usually! LOL

Love all my hair challenged bros even if they (we) are CRAZY!!!

Peace



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 04:21 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

how am I crazy??? I WAS CONVINCED THIS WOULD WORK A LONG TIME AGO. I'M NOT DEBATING WHETHER IT'S EFFECTIVE OR NOT.

All that I've asked is that IF THIS TB4 stuff stimulates ALL stem cells, not just from follicles, is it possible that it would grow something unwanted???

Only three pages later after a thousand insults about my simple question I got this response:

just like tb4 stimulates progenitor cell production there is almost certainly a mechinisim in the body to halt the production of those same cells when there is a risk of too many being produced.


great! That's all you had to said. No reason for this much drama. Moving on...



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 04:30 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

yea, it warns against using minox if you have cancer because it speeds the growth of tumors, finasteride carries a cancer warning as well as coffee and really anything you google, i havnt googled keto but if that also carries a cancer warning then you can find cancer risk in all of the big three and im willing to bet every other alternative treatment as well.



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 04:32 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Maybe YOU are not crazy, 2020, but you seem like a very irritable person who is looking to pick apart everyone's coments and look for a reason to get mad. Just my opinion, but maybe I'm crazy! Just stop and have a laugh and let's hope something works for MPB that is superior to Fin and Min. Seriously, it's just a forum and I actually wish you the best!



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 04:33 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: RSR40

Maybe YOU are not crazy, 2020, but you seem like a very irritable person who is looking to pick apart everyone's coments and look for a reason to get mad. Just my opinion, but maybe I'm crazy! Just stop and have a laugh and let's hope something works for MPB that is superior to Fin and Min. Seriously, it's just a forum and I actually wish you the best!


this will work! I have no doubt. I was just asking about possibly "unwanted" effects...
everything looks good right now so let's just wait for results



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 04:34 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Jimbo, are you 43? Wondering from the Jimbo "69" thing or is that just a sexual connotation?



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 04:44 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Hey 2020,

I'm not familar with your story... How old are you and what kind of loss do you have at this point. Thanks.



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 04:46 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

21, NW2



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 04:49 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

NW2 thick, or diffuse?



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 07:00 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

no im not 43, im 37, its a sexual thing im a norwood 2 and my hair is really thick so when i grow it a little long on top and style it right ,like palmade and spike it, i can live with it and most dont think im balding, just a mature hairline, but i recently got off avodart for a few months and my hair thinned out..now if i cut it short you can see thinning in front(diffuse) so im on 5mg fin and 100mg spiro in an attempt to grow back what i lost, i have ordered more avodart and some topical flutamide so in about a month i would like to get off oral spiro and fin and use dutasteride and topical flutamide...i think if i dont have a significant amount of what i lost when i quit dut back by the time my avodart and flutamide arrive, that combo should certainly get me there....that combined with the tb4 is started this afternoon, i should be in good shape in the next 60 days. i would like to get a small transplant to bring my hairline down a touch..i like a mature hairline to be honest, i would just rather have mine down a tiny tiny bit more. i like the look of a little temporal recession provided i have thick hair to style it and keep it looking good.



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 07:03 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: RSR40

NW2 thick, or diffuse?


thin NW2...



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 07:06 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

on a side note, my hair was starting to look really good after a couple years on avodart and like i said, i was an a-hole and got off dut for a couple months, it just happens that during those couple months i was using topical keto cream twice a day...thats the time my hair shed really really bad...and that was 6 months ago and still hasnt recovered(although the shedding stopped)

im starting to wonder if the short vacation from dut destroyed my hair or the keto cream?....im thinking maybe i was a great responder to the keto cream and if i kept at it i would have seen great regrowth but i quit 3 months in when my hair was actually at its worst...im kinda confused because i really love those photos from the japanese topical keto study, man, that shows more regrowth than most fin and minox combos....if you look at those photos and take into consideration that all the subjects were very bald before starting, they seem to have gained more ground than most minox and fin photos i have seen.

its kinda making me want to try it again im just scared of another huge shed.



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 08:03 PM
Posted By: Celco (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: summersnow
There is always a handful of people so quick to jump on any negative aspect they can find that they will dig up just about anything to actively seek out why it shouldn't work instead of focusing on why it could work & how we could enhance it's potential.

You may not see it but you are behaving just like those propecia protesters trying to fear monger people into not taking a proven drug. They are not actually interested in the fact that propecia improves the lives of 85-90% of people who take it because they are blinded by their own bitterness & selfishness due to the fact that it never worked for them.

They are actively seeking out not for a solution to the problems but to take away what is working for others because the envy is just killing them, an I see no honor in their protest.

If you ever want to find some kind of peace & contentment with anything in life not just your hair then you need to stop focusing all your energy into the problem & start actively seeking & supporting the potential solutions especially if others are willing to pave the way an risk themselves before you. Do not get in their way by fear mongering & start focusing on the positive aspects here.

Stop fear mongering & start supporting the people who are happy to take a calculated risk for better quality of life. No-one ever got anywhere standing still. If your not happy with your situation then it's your responsibility to take a chance find a solution for yourself, don't try an stand in the way of others who are trying to improve their own lives by using fear mongering tactics against them, fear mongering never helped anybody & lets face it your not fear mongering because you are genuinely worried for them, you dont know me as a friend none of us know each other as friends you have no emotional investment on the welfare of any of us on this forum. It's time to grow up & wake up to the fact the reason why your fear mongering is because yous are afraid of being left behind if it does work, when infact the opposite will happen as it could be a potential solution to everybody's hairloss or at least a very valuable asset.

Certain members of this forum needs to start supporting each-other instead of cutting each-other down every time someone tries something different to them or goes beyond what they are willing to try first.

I am going to purposely ignore any continued fighting from you guys because it's just not helping or healthy.


^This x 1000.

-------------------------
1.25mg Fin daily
Minox foam or liquid intermittently
Nizoral shampoo every 2-3 days
----------------
We need something better than Fin approved that targets the scalp only.
We need much better hair growth stimulants.



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 08:16 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

oh btw, i didnt really update you guys on my tb4, i started today, went easy like i imagined, no burn, i injected 4 mgs and will do 2 mgs ever 3 days. used a 26g insulin syringe, not much bleeding and like summer experienced, slight bumps where fluid was injected(like big mosquito bites) that went back to normal in less than an hour. i split the 4 mgs between the front and top, i didnt do my temples as i dont expect it to grow much there and personally i would rather have thick hair everywhere and bald temples that show a mature hairline than crappy looking thin temples if you know what i mean?im thinking that maybe if my temples grew in thin my hair might actually looks like im balding more?? maybe im just crazy... i imagine that since i injected my entire front section right next to my temples, if this stuff can regrow bald temples it will grow hair there anyway, i dont think it has to be injected within fractions of an inch of where you want it to work. well see, we should see results in under 60 days. fingers crossed.



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 08:17 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

^ why wouldn't it regrow temples? It would work anywhere if injected enough.

what norwood are you and what age?



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 08:19 PM
Posted By: Celco (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

oh btw, i didnt really update you guys on my tb4, i started today, went easy like i imagined, no burn, i injected 4 mgs and will do 2 mgs ever 3 days. used a 26g insulin syringe, not much bleeding and like summer experienced, slight bumps where fluid was injected(like big mosquito bites) that went back to normal in less than an hour. i split the 4 mgs between the front and top, i didnt do my temples as i dont expect it to grow much there and personally i would rather have thick hair everywhere and bald temples that show a mature hairline than crappy looking thin temples if you know what i mean?im thinking that maybe if my temples grew in thin my hair might actually looks like im balding more?? maybe im just crazy... i imagine that since i injected my entire front section right next to my temples, if this stuff can regrow bald temples it will grow hair there anyway, i dont think it has to be injected within fractions of an inch of where you want it to work. well see, we should see results in under 60 days. fingers crossed.


Did you take photos?

-------------------------
1.25mg Fin daily
Minox foam or liquid intermittently
Nizoral shampoo every 2-3 days
----------------
We need something better than Fin approved that targets the scalp only.
We need much better hair growth stimulants.



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 08:37 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

no photos. ill take them tomorrow, no rush, dont expect to wake up with hair

while on this topic i found something interesting...if anyone has been following the platlet rich plasma and acell trials, you would have seen that it really didnt grow much hair, really just thickened up existing hair but i found one interesting case of plp plus acell that stimulated quite a bit of regrowth in just 3 months and this is in a totally bald area...the difference with this case is that the doctor added thrombin to the plp/acell cocktail.....no its my understanding that thrombin is supposed to work through triggering tb4 production, so perhaps the reason this patient is the best responder to the prp is because of the thrombin? i cant find another explaination...if it was the addition of the thrombin and thrombin works because of tb4 stimulation, we could be looking at reasults at least this good and most likely better because this regrowth was from a single injection..we are doing weekly or bi weekly injections..i feel very good about this.http://www.hairsite.com/hair-l...order-last_answer.html



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 08:43 PM
Posted By: Big_bear (Accomplished Poster)

@ jimbo

any hairloss around the areas where your did the injections ?

-------------------------







Accept things the way they are not how you wish it could be,
but fate can be so cruel



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 08:45 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

here is a photo you can zoom in on. you can clearly see more hairs in the crown and this is only 3 months and the area was previously bald...for someone with just diffuse thinning, this could be a homerun since this was from one injection and we will be doing several http://www.hairlosspress.com/w...s/2011/06/THROMBIN.jpg



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 08:53 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

read this http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=5489



Date Posted: 06/22/2012 08:55 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

yes, i had diffuse thinning in the front and on top where i injected. i buzzed my hair short before i did the injections so the diffuse thinning is quite clear. i will keep my hair this short for the next couple months so the before and after photos have the same hair length



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 04:49 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

I have been researching alot on hgh. There are just too many benefits to ignore. I am going to be adding this also but i will not be injecting it into my scalp I will inject it either into the side of my neck or somewhere around the shoulder. Here is an article on the benefits it carries. http://www.hghmeds.org/hgh-benefits/ Alot of bodybuilders are claim hair color restoring & hair regrowth not to mention how it turns back time on your skin & immune system. I bet alot of celebrities are on this hgh. Is there a reason why I should not include this Jimbo, Raymond (RSR)?



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 08:18 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

i wish i could afford hgh because i would be using it in a second...of course there is the question of a lot of fake hgh going around and there is some cheap hgh that is only a fraction of the sequence but it doesnt work.....from what i know, in order to see the benifits you are talking about, you need to inject hgh at least once a day for 6 months and a pretty hefty dose..it would cost you a few thousand just to see if it works but from what i understand, your boys starts to go back to the way it was when you were a teenager , you build muscle fast, your skin looks younger, you burn fat very fast, you can eat whatever you want without gaining weight, it prevents wrinkles and even reverses some of the smaller wrinkles you may have and i have hear reports of hair thickening as well...i read an article where they tested much of the hgh being sold online from china from various sources and the majority of it(i think over 75 percent) was fake and the small percentage that wasnt fake had issues like improper dose ect.....the only way to go is to buy real somatropin(hgh) from a legit source but its gonna cost a lot of money..i would love to do it but i cant afford that.



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 08:43 AM
Posted By: folliman (Prolific Poster)

I must have missed it after reading all the posts. Were can I buy the China TB4?

Thanks



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 09:08 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

btw, i think igf-1 is whats released when you take hgh...i think igf-1 gives a lot of the same benifits as hgh for less money and hairloss and hair growth have shown to have positive effects with igf-1 http://www.hairloss-research.org/UpdateIGF10-11.html



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 09:10 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Ive heard good and bad things about the cjc-1295 hgh. It was made in Canada & its cheap as chips. The way it works is it keeps producing high volumes of the HGH in your body for 8 to 10 days after only one single injection. For none excessive weight lifters this could maybe work. All you would have to do is one or two injections a month & as CJC-1295 lasts 24 hours a day for 8-10 days, its ALWAYS at the GHSR, so the moment somatostatin levels decrease enough, another surge of GH will happen because CJC-1295 is there binding to the GHSR's.
That was an old post from this forum here http://thinksteroids.com/forum...eseach-134291850.html. The guy said it was like having a drip feed iv hook to you 24/7 being dosed with hgh. What if we only needed to inject this once or twice a year to boost our hair regrowth and youth to a higher level? There is this guy called DatBtrue on the professional muscle forum that wrote a huge thread on everything to do with the ins and outs of hgh peptides. Its here if you wanna take a look, http://www.professionalmuscle....rp-6-basic-guides.html The man looks like he knows his stuff & if you look to his signature he has a link to his own forum with all updated info but you have to sign up before you get entry. He says the guys on his forum are light years away in terms of knowledge about peptides. I am seriously considering one or two injections a month on the CJC-1295 since the only training im doing at the minute is cardio.



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 09:43 AM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

I think someone on HLT has tried HGH and he got sent to the hospital...



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 10:12 AM
Posted By: alpha (Occasional Poster)

Yep, would like to restate my estimation that supervised self administration of hgh / hg inducing peptides will be SUPER mainstream shortly for ppl in their 40s+ and then earlier in 30s. I know dozens of athletes both prof and semipro that use igf1, grp6, sermorelin. As I said, ghk also interests me a lot. I could see myself trialing at some point. Your body produces as suboptimal level of certainthings with age. Those who reject that process...well here is the answer.

For those worried about fakes, u can have purity tests done by us labs (and perhaps pool costs).

For those worried abt cancer studies/side feects-remember/understand that much of those claims are 'link bait' bc this drives hysteria and more Web hits, which drives revenue. It's perverse incentives work, as we all recall from macro econ

For those worried abt inducing rogue growth. Fair concern I suppose. Perhaps more diligent checkups and monitoring arein order, which is a good thing and may actually save you from a worse situation had u not had a reason to step up the diligence.



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 10:28 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: 2020_2

I think someone on HLT has tried HGH and he got sent to the hospital...


You think or you know? Unless you have proof of this then save yourself the trouble and dont bother commenting at all.



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 10:46 AM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: summersnow

You think or you know? Unless you have proof of this then save yourself the trouble and dont bother commenting at all.


no dude they were discussing growth factors on HLT a long time ago and some guy chipped in and said that he knew a guy that was using HGH and he regrew a lot of hair but with continued use he actually ended up in a hospital....



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 11:25 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Like alpha said above if you do enough research & use your due diligence with regular check ups then you can stack the odds highly in your favor



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 11:48 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: 2020_2

I think someone on HLT has tried HGH and he got sent to the hospital...


i think this entire forum should just start ignoring 2020 because hes is just so annoying. maybe if no one talks to him hell just go away..comments like the above are a perfect example of why i cant stand the guy. the guy has not contributed a single thing to the discussion yet he feels the need to waste space on a rather active thread. can the moderator just delete all his posts and cancel his account? that would be awesome. the guy is worthless.



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 12:01 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

i think this entire forum should just start ignoring 2020 because hes is just so annoying. maybe if no one talks to him hell just go away..comments like the above are a perfect example of why i cant stand the guy. the guy has not contributed a single thing to the discussion yet he feels the need to waste space on a rather active thread. can the moderator just delete all his posts and cancel his account? that would be awesome. the guy is worthless.


how am I not contributing?!! I remember reading that post about HGH on HLT and I'm suggesting that it's not as harmless as you make it look. You want me to dig up that post? What's your problem???



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 12:07 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

im going out for a pint this is just shite talk here



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 03:41 PM
Posted By: alpha (Occasional Poster)

@2020_2, your content thus far on this thread lacks the intellectual rigor needed to discuss/debate the merits of being an early adopter of peptides. U may be plenty capable. The postings that add the most value are more sophisticated, offering a bit more rich commentary that what we've seen from your camp. For most new potions, this simpleton skeptic role is probably fine. Here we are into a more advanced pursuit of bio engineering.



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 08:11 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

hey summer, im reading up on CJC-1295 at the moment thanks to your link and i think im gonna give it a shot. it doesnt seem to be some b.s. peptide but rather one invented in canada and put through clinical trials that showed it does raise growth hormone levels and its a much cheaper alternative. before someone posts another warning, i might as well say that yes, i did see that there were heart attack concerns during the trial but i honestly dont care. besides, its been available as a research peptide for a while with lots of people using it and many positive things to say. if it can raise my growth hormone levels to what i would get by injecting straight growth hormone and stimulate other growth factors, yes ill take the risk. if i keep losing hair i might have a heart attack anyway..btw, im not really looking for hair benefits from it, im in my mid thirties so the way i see it, if im going all out here injecting tb4 to give me back a full head of hair and taking oral spiro, i might as well do the whole package and get my skin looking young again and get a very low body fat percentage...i see this as most likely my last change to screw an 18 year old lol



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 08:14 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

i actually look quite young for my age, im told all the time i look like im in my mid 20s, if i do manage to find an interested 18 year old i might have to drop the spiro



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 08:20 PM
Posted By: marklc2004 (Accomplished Poster)

hgh is NOT going to regrow a hairline. hgh is f;n expensive 2 month supply of hgh cost more than a year supply on my regimen. it impossilbe to get as well



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 08:34 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

did you even read my post? i said i wasnt gonna use it for hair benefits



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 08:39 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

Question: does any of Histogen's stuff targets HAIR FOLLICLES ONLY??? If not, then it's comparable to thymosin but the good thing is that it will probably be more effective and be accessible much sooner



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 08:41 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

yes, i imagine it will be more effective but thymosin is already available ,,,this is why we are trying thymosin instead of histogen.



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 08:47 PM
Posted By: Budgie (Occasional Poster)

TB4 works in two or three days but you need to use lots of it and for a good amount of time to get where you need to be. I would not recommend using a needle though. It will only damage stem cells in the hair follicle. How long the effect is I cannot say because I found something more effective. Based upon how it works long term results of TB4 should be worth the money as it theoretically extends the lifespan of the hair follicle by attracting more progenitor cells to the follicle.



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 09:45 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

tb4 is too large to penetrate the skin without a needle and nothing can work in 2 or three days. your entire post is a worthless as your comment about a needle harming stem cells. this entire post is a joke.



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 09:47 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

yes, i imagine it will be more effective but thymosin is already available ,,,this is why we are trying thymosin instead of histogen.


right but I'm asking what in Histogen's "mix" makes it only work on follicles??? How come Histogen's stuff don't make you grow extra scalp skin or something?



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 09:50 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

also, anyone know if Histogen's injections could be sold as a "stand-alone" treatment? Something like insulin injections which you do yourself to your scalp right?



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 09:53 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

you are constant;y growing extra scalp skin...when more is produced the top layer sheds..i think most dust in your home is made from dead skin cells you have shed but besides that, the goal is not to create new follicles...studies show that a balding scalp and a scalp with hair have the same amout of follicles, the difference is, the balding scalp hair has become microscopic but the hairs are still there, we are trying to wake those hairs up not create new follicles...growing new follicles would be as hard as trying to use a topical to grow a new arm.



Date Posted: 06/23/2012 10:21 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

you are constant;y growing extra scalp skin...when more is produced the top layer sheds..i think most dust in your home is made from dead skin cells you have shed but besides that, the goal is not to create new follicles...studies show that a balding scalp and a scalp with hair have the same amout of follicles, the difference is, the balding scalp hair has become microscopic but the hairs are still there, we are trying to wake those hairs up not create new follicles...growing new follicles would be as hard as trying to use a topical to grow a new arm.


that was just an example.... I was simply asking, what makes Histogen's GROWTH FACTORS to work SPECIFICALLY ON HAIR FOLLICLES? Why doesn't it regrow something else? Why is all that "growth power" go straight to follicles? Do you know what I mean?



Date Posted: 06/24/2012 05:20 AM
Posted By: alpha (Occasional Poster)

These insulin pins are so thin there is minimal "damage" plus some could argue that is wound stimulation ala the derma roller and any peptides would more than overcome and put the overall mission in positive territory. If an overall internal like ghk was added, the overall benefits may just net jimbo a rogue 18-23 year old lay hahaha. Please help by skimming the full thread so u can realize we are attempting to replicate the swiss procedure and ALSO discuss OVERALL health benefits of the peptides beyond hair or synergistic effects with hair.

Hg inducing peptides Cld def help with hair regrowth, this is turning back the fkn clock on your biology. It is. Read up. It sounds nuts but haven't u seen these athletes get such extra mileage on their careers?? They are either inducing their own GH function (which I like better as a more natural prudent approach comparatively) or straight up pouring synthetic gh into their system. Let's fix hair first but not think it's in isolation from other youth inducing techniques pls



Date Posted: 06/24/2012 05:21 AM
Posted By: alpha (Occasional Poster)

These insulin pins are so thin there is minimal "damage" plus some could argue that is wound stimulation ala the derma roller and any peptides would more than overcome and put the overall mission in positive territory. If an overall internal like ghk was added, the overall benefits may just net jimbo a rogue 18-23 year old lay hahaha. Please help by skimming the full thread so u can realize we are attempting to replicate the swiss procedure and ALSO discuss OVERALL health benefits of the peptides beyond hair or synergistic effects with hair.

Hg inducing peptides Cld def help with hair regrowth, this is turning back the fkn clock on your biology. It is. Read up. It sounds nuts but haven't u seen these athletes get such extra mileage on their careers?? They are either inducing their own GH function (which I like better as a more natural prudent approach comparatively) or straight up pouring synthetic gh into their system. Let's fix hair first but not think it's in isolation from other youth inducing techniques pls



Date Posted: 06/24/2012 07:23 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: 2020_2

Originally posted by: jimbo69



you are constant;y growing extra scalp skin...when more is produced the top layer sheds..i think most dust in your home is made from dead skin cells you have shed but besides that, the goal is not to create new follicles...studies show that a balding scalp and a scalp with hair have the same amout of follicles, the difference is, the balding scalp hair has become microscopic but the hairs are still there, we are trying to wake those hairs up not create new follicles...growing new follicles would be as hard as trying to use a topical to grow a new arm.




that was just an example.... I was simply asking, what makes Histogen's GROWTH FACTORS to work SPECIFICALLY ON HAIR FOLLICLES? Why doesn't it regrow something else? Why is all that "growth power" go straight to follicles? Do you know what I mean?


As far as I am aware the TB4 only gets to work on areas that needs the attention. whether it be to wake up dormant hair follicles or the healing of an injury. To date there has not been a single report of anyone growing an extra arm on their scalp. Look at all the bodybuilders that are taking the stuff. Not one of them had negative reactions to the tb4. Your over thinking everything here. You need to stop looking for problems that arent there.



Date Posted: 06/24/2012 04:04 PM
Posted By: Mysterious (Prolific Poster)

Sorry if it is already mentioned, what is/are active ingredient(s) or molecule in TB4?



Date Posted: 06/25/2012 03:09 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: Mysterious

Sorry if it is already mentioned, what is/are active ingredient(s) or molecule in TB4?


Its the chain of 43-amino acids thats the driving force of TB4



Date Posted: 06/25/2012 03:18 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

hey summer, im reading up on CJC-1295 at the moment thanks to your link and i think im gonna give it a shot. it doesnt seem to be some b.s. peptide but rather one invented in canada and put through clinical trials that showed it does raise growth hormone levels and its a much cheaper alternative. before someone posts another warning, i might as well say that yes, i did see that there were heart attack concerns during the trial but i honestly dont care. besides, its been available as a research peptide for a while with lots of people using it and many positive things to say. if it can raise my growth hormone levels to what i would get by injecting straight growth hormone and stimulate other growth factors, yes ill take the risk. if i keep losing hair i might have a heart attack anyway[IMG][/IMG]..btw, im not really looking for hair benefits from it, im in my mid thirties so the way i see it, if im going all out here injecting tb4 to give me back a full head of hair and taking oral spiro, i might as well do the whole package and get my skin looking young again and get a very low body fat percentage...i see this as most likely my last change to screw an 18 year old[IMG][/IMG] lol


Hey Jimbo i am thinking that if I was to use CJC-1295 in the short term one or two injections for the first month only to kick start the growth factor & then to continue & maintain the anti aging all you would have to do is take 50mcg of Mod GRF1-29 before bed at night on an empty stomach along with 50mcg of GHRP-2 which you can continue taking till the day you die as its supposed to be very good for your overall health & it is cheap to run aswell.

Edit: I am going to be taking just the Mod GRF1-29 along with GHRP-2 at 50mcgs each every nite before bed. It will be enough to wind the clock back 10 + years leaving me 16 yrs old again. The huge anti-aging benefits are cosmetically noticed around the 6 month mark & using the peptides in this way will be a very healthy way of living too. The use of CJC-1295 cause a slow bleed which means the growth hormone is being released in small quantities 24/7 but you are not benefiting from it because your not getting pulsations 24/7 & when you do pulsate your body is already too depleted from the slow bleed to give a good release of growth hormone and be effective enough to induce antiaging effects. also the use of CJC-1295 causes feminizing of the liver which in turn produces more DHT. The 1 to 29 is the the chain of amino acids. The natural HGRH (hormone growth release hormone) in our bodies has 44 amino acids but its been tested that 15 of those amino acids were rendered useless so they were taken out. four of the amino acids on the 1 to 29 aa chain are modified & replaced with 4 other amino acids to keep a longer half life when injected which will last longer than 30 minutes which is more than enough time to get 3 + hrs of pulsations if used along with the GHRP-2 (growth hormone release peptide 2) Sorry if none of this make sense to anybody but I have been literally researching this all day & can't bring myself to explain this in full detail. All I can say is I will be using Modified GRF 1-29 along with GHRP-2 (growth hormone release peptide 2) at 50mcgs each once per night indefinitely followed by my weekly injections of TB4 injected into the scalp area. CJC-1295 is not good in either the short term or long term because it does not have any anti-aging benefits. I am told I look the age of 22 so I will look forward to seeing myself 6 months down the line. Mod GRF1-29 along with GHRP-2 has been dubbed the fountain of youth.

Edited: 06/25/2012 at 01:39 PM by summersnow


Date Posted: 06/25/2012 01:46 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

In regards to Marklc2004 mentioning that Hgh is really expensive and hard to get... Well that's just not true. It's MUCH easier to find Hgh than it is to find some of the products he is using for hair loss. It costs about $120 for 100 IU of blue tops (generic from China) up to maybe $160 for RipTropins (very highly regarded generic). Now if we are talking brand name versions, the price could run $220-$275 for 100 IU. Personally, I have used blue tops and LOVED them. I used them back in 2007 for 9 months and was the leanest and sharpest that I ever looked. I still have several friends that use blues and swear by them. If you want a source, it's really simple if you join a muscle forum like professionalmuscle or outlawmuscle. The "sponsors" have good deals and if bought in quantity, the prices can be really affordable.

Of course the real drawback is that the body will ultimately slow down or stop natural production of Hgh due to the high levels of Igf 1 from real exogenous Hgh. The negative feedback loop will stop the pulses of natural Hgh and upon cessation of use there will be a LAG very similar to the lag of Test production after using exogenous Test (steroids). So, that being said, the use of PEPTIDES can provide 2 options. Along the reasoning of Summersnow, you can get your own body to FIRE on all cylinders so to speak and increase endogenous Hgh production through things like CJC 1295, Hexarlin, GHRP, etc., but it is "up in the air" as to whether it is better to shut down your production by way of exogenous Hgh injections or ramp up production through use of Peptides. Some have speculated that it MIGHT be safer long term to be shut down (kind of like a hibernation) from Hgh injections and then use the Peptides ONLY to jumpstart endogenous production of Hgh after the Hgh cycle is completed.

This also leads to me contemplate the only REAL issue I have with TB4... Using it exogenously through peptide injections, we have to expect some amount of systemic circulation. Therfore there might be a negative inhibition of the natural release of thymusin from the body and a significant Lag of production at some point. Any thoughts?



Date Posted: 06/25/2012 01:56 PM
Posted By: marklc2004 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: RSR40

In regards to Marklc2004 mentioning that Hgh is really expensive and hard to get... Well that's just not true. It's MUCH easier to find Hgh than it is to find some of the products he is using for hair loss. It costs about $120 for 100 IU of blue tops (generic from China) up to maybe $160 for RipTropins (very highly regarded generic). Now if we are talking brand name versions, the price could run $220-$275 for 100 IU. Personally, I have used blue tops and LOVED them. I used them back in 2007 for 9 months and was the leanest and sharpest that I ever looked. I still have several friends that use blues and swear by them. If you want a source, it's really simple if you join a muscle forum like professionalmuscle or outlawmuscle. The "sponsors" have good deals and if bought in quantity, the prices can be really affordable.



Of course the real drawback is that the body will ultimately slow down or stop natural production of Hgh due to the high levels of Igf 1 from real exogenous Hgh. The negative feedback loop will stop the pulses of natural Hgh and upon cessation of use there will be a LAG very similar to the lag of Test production after using exogenous Test (steroids). So, that being said, the use of PEPTIDES can provide 2 options. Along the reasoning of Summersnow, you can get your own body to FIRE on all cylinders so to speak and increase endogenous Hgh production through things like CJC 1295, Hexarlin, GHRP, etc., but it is "up in the air" as to whether it is better to shut down your production by way of exogenous Hgh injections or ramp up production through use of Peptides. Some have speculated that it MIGHT be safer long term to be shut down (kind of like a hibernation) from Hgh injections and then use the Peptides ONLY to jumpstart endogenous production of Hgh after the Hgh cycle is completed.



This also leads to me contemplate the only REAL issue I have with TB4... Using it exogenously through peptide injections, we have to expect some amount of systemic circulation. Therfore there might be a negative inhibition of the natural release of thymusin from the body and a significant Lag of production at some point. Any thoughts?


blue tops are risky in my eyes. every experimental drug i use has been tested to be pure. how can i test blue tops? its illegal. no dr in their right mind will right u prescription for hgh.



Date Posted: 06/25/2012 01:57 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

are the riptropins the full hgh sequence and the 150-275 price for 100iu, how long will that last? what is the dose reccomended for fat loss and anti aging?



Date Posted: 06/25/2012 02:14 PM
Posted By: marklc2004 (Accomplished Poster)

i would only buy hgh from my local source. i would love brand name versions hgh $220-$275! RSR40 i live in albany ny if i get pinched with hgh in the mail i'm going to prision lol. the district attorny prosecutes to the fullest.



Date Posted: 06/25/2012 02:30 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

^ you said you live in long island...



Date Posted: 06/25/2012 02:37 PM
Posted By: marklc2004 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: 2020_2

^ you said you live in long island...


i live with my mother! she lives in albany county. my father lives in long island.



Date Posted: 06/25/2012 03:07 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Mark, napsgear.net has brand name at the price I mentioned. Honestly, if you were a member of promuscle, you would know that they have a forum specifically dedicated to testing Hgh sold from their sponsors. Everyone LOVES the Rips and the blues tested out at dosage. They sent pharm grade and 4-5 underground brands. The impurities were less than 1% in HG and 2-3% in the generics, except some yellows or greens (forget) that were bunk and dirty too.



Date Posted: 06/25/2012 03:09 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Just checked, HYGETROPIN 200IU for $525, but they are outa stock now.



Date Posted: 06/25/2012 03:14 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: marklc2004

i live with my mother! she lives in albany county. my father lives in long island.


hey so what is happening with that equol stuff? In the right dosage, this would probably be more effective than DUT... there needs to be more attention for equol



Date Posted: 06/25/2012 03:24 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Oh and unless you import a ton of GH, IF and I mean IF it gets intercepted, customs sends you a nice seizure letter, nothing more. Then your address is tagged, but that's IT. There have been ZERO instances of zealous local prosecution of seizures of small amounts of GH that I have seen. I have friends AFOAF (lol) that have done multiple orders over MANY years and we have all avoided any trouble. Odds are about 1 in 250 of intercept and like I said, customs won't bother to go any further than a nice letter letting you know that you have a couple options... 1. Come and pick up your stuff and face the customs... NO THANKS or, 2. Do nothing and forget about it.


Of cousre I am not condoning breaking the law, but just saying in reality they don't have the funds to bother with little imports.



Date Posted: 06/25/2012 03:29 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Jimbo... ALL real synthetic HgH is 191AA sequence. Back in the old days there was a 192 sequence that caused some serious problems, but that was years ago. Even further back, HgH was only obtained through extraction from the pituitaries of cadavers... NICE!

2-4 IU daily is the normal dose for fat loss. 2 IU probably a good place to start for anti aging benefit.



Date Posted: 06/25/2012 03:38 PM
Posted By: marklc2004 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: 2020_2

Originally posted by: marklc2004



i live with my mother! she lives in albany county. my father lives in long island.




hey so what is happening with that equol stuff? In the right dosage, this would probably be more effective than DUT... there needs to be more attention for equol


smitty is currently looking for prices. so far its not expensive.



Date Posted: 06/25/2012 03:40 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

so, what you are saying is that lets say i started on 3iu a day...the price you mentioned was 200 bucks or so for 100iu..it seems most do 5 days on two days off right? or 1 day off? so 200 bucks will get me close to enough for 3 months? if thats true its not bad at all.



Date Posted: 06/25/2012 04:13 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

I would do 5 on 2 off and hit a peptide to stimulate endogenous GH production on the 2 days off and avoid a LONG shutdown. 3 IU would be good.



Date Posted: 06/25/2012 04:26 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

how long till you see fat burning and skin improvement? btw, can you send me a pm for a reliable source for riptropin? thanks



Date Posted: 06/25/2012 06:21 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Hey Jimbo...
I don't have a source specifically to PM you, because I personally have not ordered Rips. I just read the wonderful reports and labs from their product. Just head over to professionalmuscle.com and click on FORUMS. Then head into the AAS section and look for the RipTropin banner on the right and email them for info. The sources I used in past are not secret at all (napsgear.net, Alin, Biogen.com and a few others). They are all publicly advertised on the different muscle boards.

Back when there were LOTS of DOMESTIC suppliers, it was a lot tighter and everyone wanted references to buy from them. After Operation Raw Deal in 2007, most domestics went DEEP underground and now we have International sources that openly advertise. Hope this helps. I am actually a few years removed from the scene and have only been getting interested again because of all the Peptides out there now.



Date Posted: 06/25/2012 08:11 PM
Posted By: roamingandy (Newbie)

no offence intended guys, but i have read through this whole thread and find the actual results hard to follow as the conversation gets side tracked often.

i've been looking into tb4/tb500 for recovery from a serious neck ligament injury and i've also started receding quite quickly this year, when i stumbled across tb4/tb500, which on surface value it sounds like this could perhaps cure both. anyway i was wondering if i could trouble Jimbo, or anyone else who actually tried injecting this to post a brief summary of their experience, methods, dosages and prices.

(and if its not against the forum rules, perhaps even a link to a seller).

i'm sure i'm far from the 1st person to browse this thread and get lost as the conversation swings off topic and then back again, as forum threads always do. i'm sure there would be a lot of people besides just myself who who be very interested in a summary. also i believe i saw Jimbo commenting in the German forum, did they get the same results?

thanks, Andy

Edited: 06/25/2012 at 08:19 PM by roamingandy



Date Posted: 06/26/2012 01:23 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: RSR40

In regards to Marklc2004 mentioning that Hgh is really expensive and hard to get... Well that's just not true. It's MUCH easier to find Hgh than it is to find some of the products he is using for hair loss. It costs about $120 for 100 IU of blue tops (generic from China) up to maybe $160 for RipTropins (very highly regarded generic). Now if we are talking brand name versions, the price could run $220-$275 for 100 IU. Personally, I have used blue tops and LOVED them. I used them back in 2007 for 9 months and was the leanest and sharpest that I ever looked. I still have several friends that use blues and swear by them. If you want a source, it's really simple if you join a muscle forum like professionalmuscle or outlawmuscle. The "sponsors" have good deals and if bought in quantity, the prices can be really affordable.



Of course the real drawback is that the body will ultimately slow down or stop natural production of Hgh due to the high levels of Igf 1 from real exogenous Hgh. The negative feedback loop will stop the pulses of natural Hgh and upon cessation of use there will be a LAG very similar to the lag of Test production after using exogenous Test (steroids). So, that being said, the use of PEPTIDES can provide 2 options. Along the reasoning of Summersnow, you can get your own body to FIRE on all cylinders so to speak and increase endogenous Hgh production through things like CJC 1295, Hexarlin, GHRP, etc., but it is "up in the air" as to whether it is better to shut down your production by way of exogenous Hgh injections or ramp up production through use of Peptides. Some have speculated that it MIGHT be safer long term to be shut down (kind of like a hibernation) from Hgh injections and then use the Peptides ONLY to jumpstart endogenous production of Hgh after the Hgh cycle is completed.



This also leads to me contemplate the only REAL issue I have with TB4... Using it exogenously through peptide injections, we have to expect some amount of systemic circulation. Therfore there might be a negative inhibition of the natural release of thymusin from the body and a significant Lag of production at some point. Any thoughts?


Hey Raymond I wont be using the CJC 1295 as the slow bleed it gives will run your resources of your natural growth hormones to the ground. I am definitely put the 50mcg of Mod GRF1-29 before bed at night on an empty stomach along with 50mcg of GHRP-2 that has been proven to give you great pulsations over a 3 hr period when you go to sleep at night.

It also induces heavy sleep meaning you will go out like a light if you take it before bed. Normally when you go to sleep you go through phases of rem sleep (Rapid Eye Movement) The peptides I mentioned above will put to into a very deep sleep called NREM (non rapid eye movement) this is where you are at your deepest level of sleep. Normally people are only getting 2hrs of NREM of sleep per night but with the peps I mentioned above you will get 6 to 8 hrs of NREM sleep. The recovery benefits from this kind of coma state sleep are supposed to be unreal.

If your like me an only 1 or 2 hrs sleep per night you cannot imagine what a gift it would be to have 8 hrs of NREM. The pulsations only last 3hrs Raymond which is enough to be on par with the pulsations a 16 yr old achieves throughout the day. You normal pulsations continue throughout the the next day without ever being effected from the night before so your body will never get lazy and become dependent on the peptides.

As for becoming dependent on TB4 well I cant see that ever happening simply because for our purposes it is only being injected in one session per week. & after 2 months the theory is 2 sessions per month followed by the 4 month onwards at one session a month. I really cannot see that causing dependency issues at all mate. Even if it did I would rather be dependent one session a month of a series of injections for incredible results than be a prisoner to minox and having to apply it twice a day.

Plus the added benefits of TB4, Mod GRF1-29 & GHRP-2 youth factor is a no brainer to me. Jimbo you can run GRF1-29 & GHRP-2 at 50mcgs each prebed for 6 months and safely turn the clock back 10yrs. GRF1-29 will run you around 36 bucks for 2mgs which will last you 40 days GHRP-2 will cost you around $22 for 5mgs which will last you 100 days.

You need both of those peptides taken together or at least within 10 minutes of each other but make sure you take the GRF1-29 first before the GHRP-2. So say you were looking to purchase 6 months worth then you would 5 bottles of GRF1-29 which will take you 20 days over the six month mark which would cost you approx $180 all together depending on your source.

Then you will also need your GHRP-2 at 5mg all you would need is 2 bottles of GHRP-2 which will last you 200 days. which again will give you 20 days over the 6 month mark.
which will cost you approx $44 for two 5mg bottles of those peps. So your grand total to run GRF1-29 + GHRP-2 = approx $224. Giving you health benefits & turning the clock back ten yrs. Grouping GRF1-29 + GHRP-2 give what they call a synergy effect making 5 + 2 = 15 instead of 7

Edited: 06/26/2012 at 01:29 PM by summersnow


Date Posted: 06/26/2012 02:01 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

sorry



Date Posted: 06/26/2012 02:02 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

HEY roaming andy

hey, im sorry this thread is long but we are excited about this and we are trying something extreme by some peoples opinions but our research says its no more dangerous that any other experimental treatment and in some respects a lot safer and science strongly suggests we begin to see results in 30-60 days...tb4 has been discussed before but the thread died because those who used it were only willing to use it topically and just 5 minutes of research would have told them that tb4 is way to big to penetrate the dermis in any reasonable amounts.

i have already posted about my first scalp injection experience as well as winter.

i have since injected a total of three times(im doing every three days)for the first month .

there is nothing to report yet and when i have something you guys might find interesting i will report.

i had a bad shed when i went of all meds for 2 months a couple months ago and for the past 2 months i am back on fin twice a day and 100mg oral spiro and my shedding has stopped..

aside from any shedding reports there is little to be expected one week into this treatment.

i think i already shed all my weak hairs when i went off dutasteride for a couple months so even if tb4 causes an initial shed when started, im unlikely to see much as i just about stopped a big shed by going back on meds 2 months ago.

we will keep you guys updated for sure. the idea behind this is the study showing that balding follicles lack progenitor cells that healthy follicles have.

tb4 stimulates progenitor cells as well as causes hair to grow thick and much faster in animal studies so its for this reason we expect decent results...based on how this growth stimulant works as opposed to minox, we expect results sooner than all other treatments.

this needs to be done min of once a week when started and after growth is noticed, you can start once a month and then once every few months...at least this is how most of us expect this to go.



Date Posted: 06/26/2012 02:06 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

btw, im doing 3-5 mgs every three days for the first couple weeks then i will do 5mgs once a week then 5 mgs once a month and then 5mgs once every three months.

im not sure what winter decided to do.



Date Posted: 06/26/2012 02:17 PM
Posted By: FIXME (Prolific Poster)

Testing this while taking fin and spiro is like taking you temperature while eating since cream...

ANY results you get will be put down to fin and spiro that have already proven to be effective solutions for MPB.

I plan to start licking my curtains every morning while taking fin, dut and Minox... Will report back to tell you if it's working.



Date Posted: 06/26/2012 02:46 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: FIXME

Testing this while taking fin and spiro is like taking you temperature while eating since cream...



ANY results you get will be put down to fin and spiro that have already proven to be effective solutions for MPB.



I plan to start licking my curtains every morning while taking fin, dut and Minox... Will report back to tell you if it's working.


You just keep licking those curtains & see how far that gets you. I can only speak for myself who is also running the tb4 & at the end of the day I could care less if you value the TB4 trail or not. My target is to get full hair-growth by whatever means necessary. Results is what matters to me, your skepticism means absolutely nothing to me.



Date Posted: 06/26/2012 03:52 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

yea fixme, just stfu..i have been on dut and oral spiro in the past,i was on dut for 4 years and took oral spiro for 6 months when i started and yes i grew a bunch of hair, stopped taking meds for a couple months and lost it all, im not on fin and spiro so best im looking at is matching my dut and spiro results but more likely i will not be able to do that as fin is weaker and im now 4 years older and just went through a bad shed.

i know where i grow hair on anti androgens and where i dont..besides, im not doing this trial for your sake or your peace of mind that it was the tb4 that gave me growth ..im doing it for me...so go lick curtains because its retarded nasty comments like that , that further convince me that i shouldnt even bother posting my results.

you would think that a forum full of balding men with less than stellar available treatments would be glad that someone is trying a totaly new approach ..if you think im gonna get off finasteride and spiro and leave nothing to protect my hair from dht for your sake, you have got to be kidding me.

like i said, i will know if it works and thats all that matters.



Date Posted: 06/26/2012 03:59 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

jimbo, so in your opinion this TB4 stuff would actually REVERSE MPB to the state that your hair was let's say 5 years ago and then you could just let go off TB4 and keep the gains? this isn't like minox which grows "fake" hair right?



Date Posted: 06/26/2012 05:26 PM
Posted By: roamingandy (Newbie)

no, i'm genuinely interested and impressed with what you guys are doing. i'd be surprised if the scientists testing this on rats, etc, atm werent also following and interested.

i've read up on all the science (tho obv less than you guys have) and cant see any reason it wont work. i've also noticed a lot of body builders claiming it increases hair growth when taken as a normal peptide.. which i would probably try 1st as my injury is main main priority. this is just an interesting side effect and if i was getting the stuff it would be pretty easy to do both if you get amazing results.

the thread is so long i thought you were further along than 3 injections but i will be following this thread for a while. tho i doubt i'll be able to contribute much so i'll mostly be just browsing. i can see the point that from a science point of view it would be far more beneficial to not combine the chemicals, but then Jimbo's goal is not to be a scientist but to simply grow back his hair and using yourself as a guinea pig is a brave/stupid thing to do.. the difference between the 2 is all in the eye of the beholder. it does seem bizarre that people with a vested interest in his and snows research would bother commenting just to knock it.. i mean success or failure their results will be a benefit to everyone on this forum (and some of the medical companies) as we will know if it works on humans using their methods.

lastly does anyone here know about tb4/500 and drug testing? i used to be an MMA fighter, i've been injured so long i doubt i'll ever compete again and i have no interest in gaining an unfair advantage over my opponent. but if the tb4 helps my neck but i need to keep using it to be able to train, i'd just like to know where i stand.

thanx guys



Date Posted: 06/26/2012 06:19 PM
Posted By: fuzzy warbles (Regular Poster)

jimbo - you mentioned some clinic that was having good results with tb4 injections.... what's the name of that clinic?

-------------------------
Read, read, read. Then read some more.



Date Posted: 06/26/2012 08:09 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

how the hell am i supposed to know...i dont think you can ever go off the tb4 com[pletely , just drop the injections to every so often, maybe after a year if enough stem cells grow you can maintain with an injection once or twice a year



Date Posted: 06/26/2012 08:25 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

right, but my guess is that this isn't another hair growth stimulator where it just maintains existing hair growth for as long as you use... if MPB happens due to the lack of progenitor cells, and this TB4 will replenish those cells in normal number then I'm guessing you could just stop using TB4 and hop on DHT blockers to prevent further loss of those TB4 gains



Date Posted: 06/26/2012 11:34 PM
Posted By: Mysterious (Prolific Poster)

Jimbo, I see you have used dut, spiro and fin. a) in a combo, and b) intermittently, and c) in high doses-5mg fin.

Can you please explain the a) worsening of side effects (brain fog etc.), b) any problem with spiro, c) gains made with spiro and if maintained with fin/dut? Would you say what you gain with one drug eg. Spiro can be maintained with fin? (and please use paragraphs



Date Posted: 06/27/2012 07:32 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: summersnow

Originally posted by: FIXME



Testing this while taking fin and spiro is like taking you temperature while eating since cream...







ANY results you get will be put down to fin and spiro that have already proven to be effective solutions for MPB.







I plan to start licking my curtains every morning while taking fin, dut and Minox... Will report back to tell you if it's working.




You just keep licking those curtains & see how far that gets you. I can only speak for myself who is also running the tb4 & at the end of the day I could care less if you value the TB4 trail or not. My target is to get full hair-growth by whatever means necessary. Results is what matters to me, your skepticism means absolutely nothing to me.


I would also like to add if you are anyone else not happy with the fact that both I & jimbo have been taking fin & spiro while running our own TB4 treatment then by all means feel free to drop your own meds, stick your hand in your own pocket & run your own trail for yourself to debunk the theory that TB4 grows hair.



Date Posted: 06/27/2012 07:38 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: 2020_2

right, but my guess is that this isn't another hair growth stimulator where it just maintains existing hair growth for as long as you use... if MPB happens due to the lack of progenitor cells, and this TB4 will replenish those cells in normal number then I'm guessing you could just stop using TB4 and hop on DHT blockers to prevent further loss of those TB4 gains


i think your guess would be wrong then....based on how its supposed to work and how its not needed every day and after you have growth you need to only use it every few months to maintain, it would seem that its not an "artificial growth stimulant" like minox, but rather it repairs the hair on a cellular level and once your hair is repaired, you need only to inject every few months to help maintain that repair ....whatever damaged your hair in the first place is still at work so one would still need to inject on occasion to keeo that in check, but perhaps once you get growth going with weekly injections, if you are on fin or dut, you can get away with once or twice a year injections for maintainance



Date Posted: 06/27/2012 07:45 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: roamingandy

no, i'm genuinely interested and impressed with what you guys are doing. i'd be surprised if the scientists testing this on rats, etc, atm werent also following and interested.



i've read up on all the science (tho obv less than you guys have) and cant see any reason it wont work. i've also noticed a lot of body builders claiming it increases hair growth when taken as a normal peptide.. which i would probably try 1st as my injury is main main priority. this is just an interesting side effect and if i was getting the stuff it would be pretty easy to do both if you get amazing results.



the thread is so long i thought you were further along than 3 injections but i will be following this thread for a while. tho i doubt i'll be able to contribute much so i'll mostly be just browsing. i can see the point that from a science point of view it would be far more beneficial to not combine the chemicals, but then Jimbo's goal is not to be a scientist but to simply grow back his hair and using yourself as a guinea pig is a brave/stupid thing to do.. the difference between the 2 is all in the eye of the beholder. it does seem bizarre that people with a vested interest in his and snows research would bother commenting just to knock it.. i mean success or failure their results will be a benefit to everyone on this forum (and some of the medical companies) as we will know if it works on humans using their methods.



lastly does anyone here know about tb4/500 and drug testing? i used to be an MMA fighter, i've been injured so long i doubt i'll ever compete again and i have no interest in gaining an unfair advantage over my opponent. but if the tb4 helps my neck but i need to keep using it to be able to train, i'd just like to know where i stand.



thanx guys


Hey Gandy, I have read extensively about the drug & doping of TB4 for sports. The TB4/500 is undetectable in the human body because it promotes natural TB4 in your body. It basically promotes quicker recovery to workouts & injuries. It maybe a fitness advantage as it also repairs muscle tissues quicker than normal when they are ripped after intense workouts aswell as weights. But thing thing you have to remember is it is not an illegal sports supplement & you shouldnt feel bad about being smarter about your diet & supplements than your opponent. It is your opponents responsibility to use the best diet & supplementation to his advange aswell available. If he does not then that makes you a more organized & smarter fighter than he is so if he loses then he deserves to lose because he never put in as big an effort as you did in either dieting, training or selecting the correct supplements.



Date Posted: 06/27/2012 09:59 AM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

i think your guess would be wrong then....based on how its supposed to work and how its not needed every day and after you have growth you need to only use it every few months to maintain, it would seem that its not an "artificial growth stimulant" like minox, but rather it repairs the hair on a cellular level and once your hair is repaired, you need only to inject every few months to help maintain that repair ....whatever damaged your hair in the first place is still at work so one would still need to inject on occasion to keeo that in check, but perhaps once you get growth going with weekly injections, if you are on fin or dut, you can get away with once or twice a year injections for maintainance


holy shit I hope that's true


you should start taking massive doses of Biotin/MSM to speed up regrowth



Date Posted: 06/27/2012 11:50 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Okay second session week 2.
Date Wednesday 27/06/2012
I only inject my rat once every 7 days with 5mgs of TB4
I switched my needle gauge to 29g with 1 ml syringes.

I cant believe the difference it made. It was so easy making the incisions into the scalp. I mixed 2ml of bac water into a 5mg vial of TB4. I made 17 incisions all around 5 to 6 mm deep. I did not draw blood once with those needles. The first time I injected last week with a 26 gauge needle my rat looked like an advertisement for a road accident with the blood running down the side of its head. So only on my second session I have perfected the incisions down to a tee without any discomfort I feel like I could do this forever. Like I said I spread it out on all the areas were my rat was prone to thinning with 17 incisions & not a drop of tb4 or blood spilled. I love the pump my rat seems to feel for about half an hour afterwards cause you know you really hit the target under the scalp. Anyway that's my update.



Date Posted: 06/27/2012 12:42 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

^ you're joking right?



Date Posted: 06/27/2012 12:48 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: 2020_2

^ you're joking right?


Why would I be joking?



Date Posted: 06/27/2012 06:58 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

nice summer. maybe ill try to get smaller needles. its just that i live in new york and i can buy 26 g at the local pharmacy but im gonna ask if they have something smaller



Date Posted: 06/28/2012 04:57 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

nice summer. maybe ill try to get smaller needles. its just that i live in new york and i can buy 26 g at the local pharmacy but im gonna ask if they have something smaller


Hi Jimbo sorry i got mixed up with the needle gauge i used the first time. My very first session was with a 25g needle but since then I switched to 29g needles. I will be sticking with them 29g needles for now on they are fantastic.



Date Posted: 06/28/2012 09:50 AM
Posted By: StandStrong (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: RSR40

Next Monday at 8:30 I am going to be on Fitphysiqueradio.com and they just mentioned the Peptides and hairloss forum. By the way, I am Ryan Raymond, so you know who to to listen for... The show is live right now and I am excited to be on it next week to discuss hairloss, acne, peptides, etc.


did you do the show?



Date Posted: 06/28/2012 10:27 AM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Actually, they postponed it til tonight so I could have over an hour. I'm gonna talk about anabolics and peptides, but I'm also going to cover a bunch of hair loss things for the bodybuilding community. They are not as well versed on hair loss as this forum, and to them the idea of suppressing androgens is very taboo and scary! Lol. So a lot of the hair related info may be rudimentary to you guys. If anyone would like to listen, tune in to fitphysiqueradio.com and join in the discussion on the chat room or call in. Thanks for asking... There is no ageda or sales pitch, so hopefully that will keep it honest!



Date Posted: 06/30/2012 10:53 PM
Posted By: Travbedaman (Prolific Poster)

29G needles are what most use for subq injections, I would use 30g if you are doing scalp injects, its the same size botox is generally injected with.

Also 1ml of bac or sterile water is all that is needed to dissolve 5mg of tb500, but if you prefer to be a human pin cushion then be my guest.



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 06:17 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: Travbedaman

29G needles are what most use for subq injections, I would use 30g if you are doing scalp injects, its the same size botox is generally injected with.



Also 1ml of bac or sterile water is all that is needed to dissolve 5mg of tb500, but if you prefer to be a human pin cushion then be my guest.


The 29g needles work just fine i have tested 1ml of bacwater with 5mg of tb4/500 & I decided that i like using 5mgs of bacwater better as it covers more ground so i have it to my liking regardless of being a human pin cushion. Thanks for chipping in anyway



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 07:47 AM
Posted By: jonson123 (Prolific Poster)

Jimbo do you see any difference in your hair and scalp?



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 07:52 AM
Posted By: padstar (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: summersnow

Okay second session week 2.

Date Wednesday 27/06/2012

I only inject my rat once every 7 days with 5mgs of TB4

I switched my needle gauge to 29g with 1 ml syringes.



I cant believe the difference it made. It was so easy making the incisions into the scalp. I mixed 2ml of bac water into a 5mg vial of TB4. I made 17 incisions all around 5 to 6 mm deep. I did not draw blood once with those needles. The first time I injected last week with a 26 gauge needle my rat looked like an advertisement for a road accident with the blood running down the side of its head. So only on my second session I have perfected the incisions down to a tee without any discomfort I feel like I could do this forever. Like I said I spread it out on all the areas were my rat was prone to thinning with 17 incisions & not a drop of tb4 or blood spilled. I love the pump my rat seems to feel for about half an hour afterwards cause you know you really hit the target under the scalp. Anyway that's my update.


What a lucky rat, having an owner like you! He must be so grateful that you're fixing his hairloss problem



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 08:16 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: padstar

Originally posted by: summersnow



Okay second session week 2.



Date Wednesday 27/06/2012



I only inject my rat once every 7 days with 5mgs of TB4



I switched my needle gauge to 29g with 1 ml syringes.







I cant believe the difference it made. It was so easy making the incisions into the scalp. I mixed 2ml of bac water into a 5mg vial of TB4. I made 17 incisions all around 5 to 6 mm deep. I did not draw blood once with those needles. The first time I injected last week with a 26 gauge needle my rat looked like an advertisement for a road accident with the blood running down the side of its head. So only on my second session I have perfected the incisions down to a tee without any discomfort I feel like I could do this forever. Like I said I spread it out on all the areas were my rat was prone to thinning with 17 incisions & not a drop of tb4 or blood spilled. I love the pump my rat seems to feel for about half an hour afterwards cause you know you really hit the target under the scalp. Anyway that's my update.




What a lucky rat, having an owner like you! He must be so grateful that you're fixing his hairloss problem


Thanks Padstar I guess you could say i am somewhat of an animal lover Cheers for the beer needed that.



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 10:27 AM
Posted By: Travbedaman (Prolific Poster)

Im running this right now, but just subq to help my joint issues from the gym. I'll be running 5mg per week for 6 weeks and then prolly 5mg per month for a maintenence dose. If I see any hair regrowth I will post in here.



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 10:55 AM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Interesting to see if there is an improvement from non-local injections. Thought seems to be that local injections could be very good for both wound healing from injuries as well as hair regrowth. Are you injecting near your injury? Keep us posted!



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 11:54 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

I wanna mention that I have a knee injury from a crash an ever since day one from injecting into the scalp I have no more issues with it, a very welcome side effect



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 12:48 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

No kidding... That's awesome Summersnow.



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 01:12 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: RSR40

No kidding... That's awesome Summersnow.


It must have a systematic effect in the body Ryan. I am not afraid of getting the needles right into my rats head & making it count. I don't want to say this stuff is growing hair right out the gate as I will not be reporting or evaluating hair regrowth if any till i give it a proper run 3 to 6 months down the line but what I will say is my rats hair has thickened to the point to where the thinned out areas are no longer visible to the naked eye. Hair is noticeably darker I was asked twice last week if I dyed my hair during the week where I just laughed an said I am aging backwards because I fell into a time warp. I am no longer shedding hair. Dandruff is now non-exsistant. My hair also has a rubbery texture feel to it, last time it felt like that was when I was 15yrs old & I just feel really good about myself. I'm in my late 20s an still look like a teenager life is f_cking awesome at the minute.

I am still very interested in the anti aging peptides an will be running them for all their worth. I lifted weights for 6 yrs before taking a few years out Ryan. Once my hair has stabilized i will be back giving it all my worth again the the gym but all natural no steroids. my best benching was 105kgs for 4 reps & 160kg for 6 reps of dead lifts. My best clean an jerks was 85 kg for 3 reps, my barbell squats were 160kg for 6 reps at their best. I was all about the heavy compound movements when I trained & a good solid diet. I'm not against steroids but my hair is against it an my hair says it's not worth the risk. Ryan is it true that your muscle fibres has a memory & you can get back into your former shape within 2 to 3 months with a good diet? I am not starting back to maybe October when my hair gives me permission.



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 01:14 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

^ so you're saying that thymosin B4 worked for your hair?



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 01:19 PM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

It's always easier to regain muscle size than to initially grow it. Kind of like blowing up a balloon, difficult at first untill it stretches, but very easy to b low up after that. The theory is that the fascia tissue surrounding the muscle tissue gets stretched when muscle hypertrophies allowing that tissue to expand easier the second or third, etc. times around. And just for the record, I am natural now and won't jeopardize my health or hair with steroids anymore.



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 01:21 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

@ 2020_2
Maybe you should go back an read my statement half a dozen times an then comment. Is there anywhere on that post where I mention hair regrowth? As far as I am concerned until I see actual full regrowth or Jimbo has now got Jared leto hairline then the jury is still out on whether it grows hair or not.

Edited: 07/01/2012 at 01:28 PM by summersnow



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 01:25 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: RSR40

It's always easier to regain muscle size than to initially grow it. Kind of like blowing up a balloon, difficult at first untill it stretches, but very easy to b low up after that. The theory is that the fascia tissue surrounding the muscle tissue gets stretched when muscle hypertrophies allowing that tissue to expand easier the second or third, etc. times around. And just for the record, I am natural now and won't jeopardize my health or hair with steroids anymore.


I know heard in the radio show that you took the natural route. I guess at this stage of the game you have to set your priorities an work with what you got & make the best of what you already achieved an maintain it. I wont rule out peptides for performance enhancement in the future but first priority is hair as vein as it sounds lol



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 01:31 PM
Posted By: rwasman (Newbie)

So what is the current state of the art treatments?

My understanding is that OC00459 was first seeked out ~2-3 months ago after a study came out which indicated that prostaglandin D2 (PGD2) was coorelated with levels of hair loss and that inhibiting prostaglandin may prevent hair loss or cause it to regrow.

TB4 seems to share the same anti inflammatory properties (baldness being a inflammatory condition which is triggered by DHT/T at the hair roots.) so am I correct in understanding that TB4 and other pepties/etc are another avenue of approach?

Do we have any documented evidence as to their efficacy? Posts from bodybuilding forums don't tend to be very objective and scientific in these matters.



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 01:46 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: rwasman

So what is the current state of the art treatments?



My understanding is that OC00459 was first seeked out ~2-3 months ago after a study came out which indicated that prostaglandin D2 (PGD2) was coorelated with levels of hair loss and that inhibiting prostaglandin may prevent hair loss or cause it to regrow.



TB4 seems to share the same anti inflammatory properties (baldness being a inflammatory condition which is triggered by DHT/T at the hair roots.) so am I correct in understanding that TB4 and other pepties/etc are another avenue of approach?



Do we have any documented evidence as to their efficacy? Posts from bodybuilding forums don't tend to be very objective and scientific in these matters.


Rwasman yes there was studies to show TB4 regrew hair on the scalps of men years ago studies were abandoned because pharmacies could not patent the peptide into a stable shelf life drug where it could easily sold over the counter with a good shelf life, but there is no studies proving that tb4/500 does the same as TB4 which why i am trailing it for my own personal interest. You really have to do your own research & make a decision as to whether it is worth the hassle or not. I spent some 80+ hours reading up on it before putting my hand in my pocket, I am not recommending anyone else do the same as everyone has different tolerance levels etc. It all depends how far your willing to step out over the edge. For me I am willing to take a calculated risk as long as the potential reward is worth the hassel



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 01:59 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Also I have a big interest on the effects of Astressin B & the elimination of stress & anxiety which I believe is the root of all my problems infact I would nearly go on to say im 99.9% sure it is as I had a tragic childhood which has shaped my life without me being conscience of it. Now that i am aware of it the whole connection to my anxiety related problems hairloss makes perfect sense to me. I am considering blocking the CRF-1 receptor with a drug called Antalarmin which is a cheaper alternative to Astressin B & taking things from there. I don't care if it invalidates my TB4 trail because at the end of the day I am here for one reason to regain my hair & move on. Everybody similar & different reasons for their hairloss but my bigger demon is anxiety & i am now finally dealing with that through therapy & by whatever other means necessary.



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 02:15 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jonson123

Jimbo do you see any difference in your hair and scalp?


no difference in my hair yet but like i posted yesterday, i know its starting to do something because im on oral spiro that has dramatically slowed my facial hair growth. i used to be able to go 2 or three days after shaving before i could start to feel stubble again(i used to be able to feel stubble hours after shaving)

now on tb4 i have stubble the next day again.

thats really all i have to report but its only been two weeks.



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 02:20 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

Originally posted by: jonson123



Jimbo do you see any difference in your hair and scalp?




no difference in my hair yet but like i posted yesterday, i know its starting to do something because im on oral spiro that has dramatically slowed my facial hair growth. i used to be able to go 2 or three days after shaving before i could start to feel stubble again(i used to be able to feel stubble hours after shaving)



now on tb4 i have stubble the next day again.



thats really all i have to report but its only been two weeks.


Has it even been 2 week Jimbo? I only started 10 days ago myself.



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 06:13 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

well, i meant im into my second week, way too soon to even think about results. just had that small observation,not even sure if it related to tb4



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 06:32 PM
Posted By: Mysterious (Prolific Poster)

I think someone have already responded to my question that TB4 is a chain of amino acids molecules. What mechanism does it work on? Is this anti-inflammatory, stem cell growth, or production of entirely new follicles?

Also, how is TB4 different from TB500 that I believe can be purchased online?

Edited: 07/05/2012 at 10:13 PM by Mysterious



Date Posted: 07/01/2012 06:35 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

you gotta read the thread , we went over all that



Date Posted: 07/02/2012 07:08 PM
Posted By: alpha (Occasional Poster)

Disclaimer is needed again for new floaters into this thread-pls perform your due diligence on peptides before asking questions that u Cld Google.

I want to revisit my open question for us to consider a tb4 local pins to the scalp. I ask what pct gains/benefits do we theorize will be systemic and what pct direct to the scalp/hair? 50/50? 80/20? SubQ I reckon means it's likely to be high towards systemic, but none of us know. Letsjust please keep this question in mind during the trial. Cld be significant anti agingeffects systemically!

I'm also interested in pooling funds to interview a qualified expert to learnmore. There are a number of online sites that Cld lead us to phds in chemistry etc where we Cld crowdsource an interview guide and goals document to find a willing and capable info source.

Yes of course pharma passes on peptides bc they are far too elegant/simple a solution to maximize shareholder wealth, which is their charter. Not to mention, very few consumers will easily be convinced to self inject.



Date Posted: 07/03/2012 05:27 PM
Posted By: Travbedaman (Prolific Poster)

Originally posted by: RSR40

Interesting to see if there is an improvement from non-local injections. Thought seems to be that local injections could be very good for both wound healing from injuries as well as hair regrowth. Are you injecting near your injury? Keep us posted!


No I'm not injecting near my injury because I have multiple sore and achy joints, so just injecting in the stomach, but I will post any hair regrowth. I am maintaining my hair on about 5 different products. Ive lost a bit of ground about a year ago, so I just need some mild regrowth.



Date Posted: 07/03/2012 06:43 PM
Posted By: Phalacrophobic (Accomplished Poster)

Originally posted by: alpha

. Not to mention, very few consumers will easily be convinced to self inject.


You're talking about people here that'll take anti-androgens orally, self injections would be no problem.

-------------------------
I WILL STAY A NORWOOD 1!!!!!!!!!



Date Posted: 07/04/2012 05:33 AM
Posted By: oofah (Accomplished Poster)

I've decided to take the plunge. Going to order the 29g needles and TB4/500 from osta-gain. I assume that's where everyone is getting their TB?



Date Posted: 07/04/2012 06:04 AM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

I have read some negative crap about OstaGain online and although I have used them before, I'm not sure about their products now. Look at ErgoPep and PurchasePeptides, and GreatWhitePeptides too. I am just weirded out by how low Osta's prices have gone and on a pro hormone forum, they got real bad reviews after some people wanted to have the products lab certified. Basically, the owner of prohormoneforum told Osta in an email that they wanted to order some peptides and have them tested. Well OstaGain apparently did not like that and refused to send the order. The owner of PHF then posted the nasty emails online and that started a war. Nevertheless, I don't like the fact that Osta was touchy about the whole thing. I just found this out a few days ago. You can find the thread by searching for OstaGain reviews



Date Posted: 07/04/2012 07:46 AM
Posted By: Travbedaman (Prolific Poster)

Originally posted by: RSR40

I have read some negative crap about OstaGain online and although I have used them before, I'm not sure about their products now. Look at ErgoPep and PurchasePeptides, and GreatWhitePeptides too. I am just weirded out by how low Osta's prices have gone and on a pro hormone forum, they got real bad reviews after some people wanted to have the products lab certified. Basically, the owner of prohormoneforum told Osta in an email that they wanted to order some peptides and have them tested. Well OstaGain apparently did not like that and refused to send the order. The owner of PHF then posted the nasty emails online and that started a war. Nevertheless, I don't like the fact that Osta was touchy about the whole thing. I just found this out a few days ago. You can find the thread by searching for OstaGain reviews


There is a similar thread about ergopep as well. If you look hard enough you'll find negative reviews on all of the above companies. I personally got bunk ghrp-6 from great white peptides.

The way I look at it the most hardcore BB forum is professional muscle and by far the two highest rated sites are osta and ergo.



Date Posted: 07/04/2012 07:51 AM
Posted By: Travbedaman (Prolific Poster)

Basically either site right now is fine, there are plenty of logs on professional muscle with recent reviews and all are positive.



Date Posted: 07/04/2012 07:59 AM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

I want to believe that Osta is good cause I have ordered GW501516 from them a few times and the service an T/A was awesome. Yeah and I do really like professionalmuscle. I have been a forum member for 6 years, but I don't post too much. I was banned from outlawmuscle for questioning the service of one of their sponsors. I hope Osta is gtg because they really do have phenomenal prices right now with that 40% off sale. Thanks



Date Posted: 07/05/2012 11:25 AM
Posted By: Travbedaman (Prolific Poster)

Yeah I just started taking osta's GW501516, never ran it before so hope it's good!



Date Posted: 07/06/2012 07:18 PM
Posted By: FresHair2 (Newbie)

Bought tb4500 from GreatWhitePeptides. Im using a 29 g insulin syringe for injection. Had a mix up at the post office so it chilled their for 4 days. My question is do you think this unrefridgerated environment would effect the product in anyway?



Date Posted: 07/06/2012 08:21 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

naw, not for 4 days



Date Posted: 07/06/2012 11:40 PM
Posted By: Mysterious (Prolific Poster)

A silly question,

It says TB500, synthetic version of TB4, is a peptide that helps in growth of skin cells, hair cells etc. etc.. but also helps in making enzymes.

Does TB4/TB500 also increase the notorious (5-AR?) binding enzymes in hair follicles?



Date Posted: 07/08/2012 02:03 PM
Posted By: cruiser (Regular Poster)

Hey what about applying this tb4 topically with dmso? that should reach the follicle right?Thanks!



Date Posted: 07/08/2012 02:06 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

no, its a peptide and a large one, it cant penetrate the dermis, besides, even if it could , peptides are fragile and dmso may destroy the peptide chain...peptides are so fragile that you cant even shake them when in a liquid or inject them too fast or it will destroy the chain.



Date Posted: 07/08/2012 03:21 PM
Posted By: freshair (Regular Poster)

Yeah I read that too. It kinda made me worried I had damaged it cause I did kinda shake it the first time. This last time I reconstituted I had small clumps that didnt dissolve immediately so I swirled the vial a little. Ever experienced this. _ note: this was the first reconstitution that came out of the refridgerator.



Date Posted: 07/08/2012 03:52 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

if you shook it i dont think you ruined it completely but you run the risk of breaking some of the chains, even if some was destroyed through shaking, you still have the majority of it intact , i wouldnt worry too much, just dont do it again.



Date Posted: 07/08/2012 06:18 PM
Posted By: freshair (Regular Poster)

Ok thanks.



Date Posted: 07/09/2012 12:44 AM
Posted By: Mysterious (Prolific Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

no, its a peptide and a large one, it cant penetrate the dermis, besides, even if it could , peptides are fragile and dmso may destroy the peptide chain...peptides are so fragile that you cant even shake them when in a liquid or inject them too fast or it will destroy the chain.


peptide cant penetrate skin layer. Are ahk-Cu peptide gels/cream being sold and applied topicaly not effective?

Edited: 07/09/2012 at 04:06 PM by Mysterious


Date Posted: 07/09/2012 08:06 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

some peptides can, if you look at copper peptides it has a short chain i believe and a low mw, it can get through the dermis i believe but more complex amino acid chains like tb4 cant.



Date Posted: 07/09/2012 10:42 AM
Posted By: Lumen (Occasional Poster)

Hi

I just signed up here to tell you people something important about peptides and the research companies.
Ive been lurking this forum for quite a while but feel the need to post here


ive done a quite few cycles of AAS and being prone to hairloss, its become kind of my specialty in that domain to always look for something new, change dosages and compounds, suppliers ect..

you should know that some companies, in particularly one thats very active on a forum called pro muscle , is a complete scam. they have strong reps always telling that this and that new peptide is awesome, but the users never feel anything, and their complain posts get deleted very quickly by the board. there has been lab work done and all of it is bunk

Second of all, some of the peptides that ALL peptide companies sell are fake, this concerns specially IGF-1, Lr3 or DES. igf is extremely costly and iirc is only made by one australian biotech company that has the patent to it. the peptides company rely one the power of their reps in the forums to push this or that product, stuff like heraxelin or ipamorelin is pretty much useless, people describe their usage of it as a pump, but in bodybuilding nearly everything you can find in a GNC can give you a pump, same goes for the myostatin inhibitors such as follistatin 4, about a year ago there was a hype around it, ends up all the research comp were selling sugar.

Third, The research companies try to push their products in the bodybuilding world. most of the kids will jump on stuff like that thinking its the latest stuff, backed up usually by one or 2 scientific papers, however the serious bodybuilders consider peptides to be waste of time and only good in anti-aging stuf, not at all in muscle building.
Take some HGH and that beats pinning yourself 15 times per day with GRHP,tesamorelin,ipa,herax,cjc ect.., much more cost effective and you are sure of the results because of the visible effects/side effects.


ALL of the companies buy their stuff from the same chinese suppliers,

SOME research companies, especially that one i mentioned in my first paragraph, will have a sister site, with a different name/layout selling the exact products at the exact same prices. be carefull

the only peptide thats guaranteed NOT to be bunk in the research comps at near 100% is mt-2, because its common and widely available



since im new and there are a lot of people that advertise or badmouth this product i don't want to say a name of a company, ive been looking at TB4/500 for a while, but in all this cluster***** of research comps and although this is my area of expertise i am still waiting to see which companies carriers a LEGIT version of it



Date Posted: 07/09/2012 11:21 AM
Posted By: RSR40 (Prolific Poster)

Yeah, I've had a gut reaction about Osta and purchase peps. Let's hear some more input... I mentioned this a few pages back, but honestly I'm not sure which companies are legit now... Damn. Anyone dealt with Canada Peptides???



Date Posted: 07/09/2012 12:04 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

i bought some tb4 from southern research co. they are quite a bit more than most peptide sellers but i found they have one of the best reputations online si i went with them



Date Posted: 07/09/2012 12:23 PM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

I went with greatwhitepeptides. I have used 6 5mg vials so far. I never got the same great affect as I did the first time I injected. It maybe because I froze the peptides in the freezer & destroyed the effectiveness as I read somewhere that if your going to freeze them you need to put your box of vials in a freezer bag to elimate as much moisture as possible. I only have 4 left so I will shop elsewhere anyway. I do have some legit Modified GRF(1-29) & GHRP-2. from a source I know is reliable. It should be here by the end of the week. I'm not using it for bodybuilding I am using it for anti-aging. I am in my late 20s & I am sure I can take full advantage of it as there are alot of reports of hair thickening effects & great skin tone. I am going to run it everyday for a full year and just inject it in the neck. Also been taking ice cold showers for over a 2 weeks now it is supposed to be very good for your skin. I dont miss the warm water at all as Ive already adapted to the cold water.



Date Posted: 07/09/2012 01:33 PM
Posted By: Lumen (Occasional Poster)

since i see a lot of people are ordering from greatwhite , this one is ok
another ok one is manpowerresearch supply, they had some probs a few month ago but took care of it quickly
osta gain since ive seen it mentioned here is ok although new so most of their peptides are not fully tested. they is also some drama going on prohormone board concerning lab test of igf1, bunk ofc but they acted weird, board is down now so can't see whats up (datbetrue.co.uk good info board and has the famous DATs which is an expert on peptides)

knowm scammers are precision peptides (have clone sites) and ergopep

Edited: 07/09/2012 at 01:41 PM by Lumen



Date Posted: 07/09/2012 02:17 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

do you know anything about southern research?



Date Posted: 07/09/2012 03:49 PM
Posted By: Lumen (Occasional Poster)

from a knowleadgeable person is this : southern research and purity solutions have passed somewhere a mass spec test, but i cant seem to find the results. apparently their reputation are ok


but remember that although ok or not ok, the igf-1, and im emphasizing on that cause it has regrowth properties (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10673454) will be FAKE no matter the research chem, 100mcg should cost about 1000usd, they sell a gram for around 80$, its way too early for igf-1 time, but im sure it has one of the best regrowth factor. only option now is HGH
So if you see test of some companies that are just follisatin , igf1 des/lr3 and fail them, its not at all suprising,
some other products that are to common and cheap to make bunk, but are is how you recognise a real scam company, also when they ***** up ancilliaries like tamoxifen/clomid/letro (which are VERY important for bodybuilders ) and do not fix their stuff / do not refund or send new products = scam

one last thing. none of the companies make the peptides, they just make the liquid research chemicals, ALL the peptide powder come from china, USA made is bullshit, maybe the Mt2 is usa made.
the higher the number of amino acids or chains the more difficult it is for them to make that.
even if the chinese make the stuff, it will NEVER be as good as a proper molecule made by a pharma grade company, think of it in terms of Louis Vuitton Bags, you have the original from the shop quality, then counterfeit A grade, B grade, C grade ect..



Date Posted: 07/09/2012 04:32 PM
Posted By: Mysterious (Prolific Poster)

Jimbo,

did you buy your TB4 from southern research

this one?

http://southernresearchco.com/thymosin-beta-4-5mg.html



Date Posted: 07/09/2012 04:55 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

yep, thats where i got mine, are you in europe?



Date Posted: 07/09/2012 04:56 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

mysterious i sent you a pm btw



Date Posted: 07/09/2012 04:58 PM
Posted By: Celco (Accomplished Poster)

I hope everyone who is trying this is taking good and clear before photos. This is an interesting experiment.

-------------------------
1.25mg Fin daily
Minox foam or liquid intermittently
Nizoral shampoo every 2-3 days
----------------
We need something better than Fin approved that targets the scalp only.
We need much better hair growth stimulants.



Date Posted: 07/11/2012 07:56 AM
Posted By: summersnow (Accomplished Poster)

Guys I have to take a bow an leave this TB4 experiment. If anyone has read my first thread I wrote this year they will know that I suffer from occasional panic attacks. Usually after my phase of a panic attack my face becomes tingly and my eyebrows start to feel numb & eventually within a few days the numbness begins to crawl up the sides burns of my head followed by my entire scalp. This normally lasts about 3 weeks then it calms down. My cortisol levels are 8 times the normal range as I had my bloods taken recently. They sent away for another test to double check. My B12 levels are also in the low range. Can't believe this is happening to me as my diet is so strict that it would scare the shit out of any normal person. Couple of months ago I got that obsessed with my diet I decided to put my evening dinner into a blender & blend all my fish & vegetables together for better digestion.

I will go one further & even sicker 3 months ago I got the idea in my head that doing daily coffee enemas would would be the cure to everything in life including anxiety attacks. I did them everyday for 5 weeks & I admit I felt great doing them, but I took a few weeks break from them & only started them back up this week again after my panic attack though i'm only going to be doing them 3 days a week this time round. As you can see I am one *****ed up individual to say the least. So if my cortisol levels come back in the high range again next week they are going to test me for cushings disease. The way they do that is they put you in hospital & monitor you for a few days under the drug metyrapone. Metyrapone is actually supposed to take away the effects of bad memories & experiences aswell as a testing drug for cushing disease. It is been tested with people who have PTSD. That will be a welcome side affect believe me

I have come to the conclusion that I don't have MPB. I am suffering from a serious stress disorder of some sort. Unfortunately all my signs and symptoms are pointing in the direction of cushings disease according to the doctor though they won't say either way till all the tests are done. I will be getting vitamin b12 shots aswell to deal with that problem do you think B12 injections will grow my hair back in? But TBH hairloss is just a small equation compared to the torture & pain I feel being consumed by anxiety. Once the unlaying problem is resolved I should hopefully find some sanity again. My father took his own life many years ago, they said he had "depression" but depression is such a universal word. I remember when I was a kid my old man had some severe panic attacks where he would be waking up in the middle of the night terrified & sweating buckets.

My mum said he would do the strangest things I am too embarrassed to mention & she has recently seen me starting to follow the same kind of behavior pattern. But I will mention this my mum said my father once said that noone in the house was allowed to eat salt as he said it was really bad for your health. 4 weeks later my mum found him sitting in the kitchen with a bucket of salt consuming spoon fulls of it saying that salt was the fruit of life & a gift from God. Lol I thought this really funny but i will not share any more of the weird behaviors he had. I know I have control over my life & there is no excuse for me to end up with the same fate as him given the vast understanding & progress the medical world now has. But it scares the hell outta me to think that I have been unselfconsciously following in his footsteps to a similar degree without knowing. I am five yrs away from the age he took his own life.

But to rewind back they couldn't treat the man because he was unwilling to be treated at the risk of people thinking he was nuts & that they would lock him away in a rubber room & give him shock treatment, thinking back to one flew over the co cuckoo's nest. Nowadays we know better than that & have a better perception on how these mental disorders are treated. In my case it does not scare to be treated for my anxiety as long as they can find the root of the problem & not just put a band aid over the symptoms. This might actually sound strange but today i feel less anxious than I have in years because I am finally seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. I have never been able to keep a long term relationship with a girl because of this burden which eventually consumed me to the point where I had to do my own research and point the doctor in the right direction.

-Why couldn't the doctor not have seen this for themselves?

Several years ago the doctor had me on antidepressants & diazepam which believe it or not did nothing for me & i dropped them cold turkey after a year of usage.

-Why didn't they look into the root of the anxiety back then instead of superscribing me with antidepressants & sending me on my merry way?

- Why was it this year when I told the doctor about my panic attacks reoccurring down the phone he just suggested prescribing a higher dose of antidepressants from what i had years ago & when I refused the idea he thought that I should try beta-blockers instead without running blood-tests for any underalying problems?

-Why was it that I had to specifically say test my cortisol levels for them to have a clue what was going on with me, like why couldn't they have checked this out years ago? I mean I had all the tell tale symptoms how could it not have been obvious to them?

Do yourselves a favor guys. Check your family history for any medical conditions then check any uncomfortable symptoms you may have physical or mental & then do some research over the internet because if your not choking on your own blood and gasping your last breath then the doctors have no interest, unless you point them in the right direction & complain to them enough. I have wasted years of my life, where as if I had of been smarter years ago my condition could have been treated had I done my own research instead of sweeping everything under the carpet.
It's interesting that I was along the right track when I ordered vitamin b12 inject-able liquid along with Modified GRF(1-29) & GHRP-2 last week before my blood results came through! Because hormone replacement is what's needed when people are treated with cushings disease as in alot of cases with cushings disease it stops the growth hormone & then it has to be replaced. LOL I wasted money on injectable vitamin B12 when I am going to be getting it for free from the doctor along with the hormone therapy when they diagnose the cushings disease. Well that's my update. Thought it was only fair to let you know what was happening with me. I have vials of tb4 leftover but I will only be continuing them on a few injuries I have. I may start the Modified GRF(1-29) & GHRP-2 injections but only under the guidance of my doctor.
Oh & btw all my other blood work like my liver etc checked out just fine & aswell as my blood pressure. Only my cortisol levels were way out of range.

Edited: 07/11/2012 at 08:06 AM by summersnow



Date Posted: 07/12/2012 04:58 AM
Posted By: oofah (Accomplished Poster)

Would like some advice regarding TB4 application. I know nothing about needle injections. Do I just pull the amount needed out of the bottle with the syringe, inject it into my temple and that's it? I've been reading about sterilized and bac water, do I first put the water into the syringe then the TB4 or do I have to mix the two in a separate container then pull the mixture into the syringe and inject? I was thinking of buying just 5mg and testing one temple. So let's say it's about a 1" square area, would I inject several small areas or just one? Once the seal is broken on the TB4 bottle, how long do I have to use it up? How often should I inject, daily, once a week, couple times a week? Sorry for all the questions.



Date Posted: 07/12/2012 05:09 AM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

great, one of the two trialing tb4 doesnt even have mpb .... am i the only one now?



Date Posted: 07/12/2012 09:42 AM
Posted By: Travbedaman (Prolific Poster)

Summersnow, if your cortisol levels are high, ghrp-2 is not what what you wanna take, it raises prolactin and cortisol the most out of all the ghrp's. Ipamorelin is what you should take in your case.



Date Posted: 07/12/2012 10:13 AM
Posted By: freshair (Regular Poster)

Jimbo, Im still cycling tb4. Somewhat concerned about the efficacy of GreatWhitePeptides when I saw the price difference between them and the place where you ordered yours. But who knows.



Date Posted: 07/12/2012 02:13 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

the place i ordered from is the most expensive you can find..i wouldnt worry too much about it... i think i will have an update for you guys soon, i just wanna take some pictures



Date Posted: 07/12/2012 03:49 PM
Posted By: Phalacrophobic (Accomplished Poster)

Updates??

-------------------------
I WILL STAY A NORWOOD 1!!!!!!!!!



Date Posted: 07/14/2012 07:24 PM
Posted By: freshair (Regular Poster)

concensus on best research chemical company for tb500?



Date Posted: 07/18/2012 08:03 PM
Posted By: Okay (Prolific Poster)

.

Edited: 07/27/2012 at 06:39 PM by Okay



Date Posted: 07/21/2012 09:02 PM
Posted By: cruiser (Regular Poster)

Can someone pleasse tell me how this peptide is shipped in the vial.Is it a powder you have to mix with something or already liquid?I need to know what i should purchase to mix the powder with and also i ve only seen tb-500 where do you find the real tb4?I do NOT plan to inject this as i have a fear of needles although i might consider it.I would like to try a .5 mm dermaroller which i think should be deep enough for the follicle or do you guys think i should use a .75 mm dermaroller?I just dont want to damage the follicle.The studies with mice showed results with topical administration so i believe it can work topically maybe best by injection but hopefully second best would be dermaroller.I dont think the dermaroller would damge the tb molecule it is only peircing deep enough to allow the TB4 into the follicle.What do you guys think?I might just try this on 1 temple as well not sure how much i can afford.Much thanks for input...



Date Posted: 08/02/2012 06:53 PM
Posted By: Kirby (Accomplished Poster)

Bump



Date Posted: 08/02/2012 07:27 PM
Posted By: jimbo69 (Accomplished Poster)

dermaroller is a waste of time and money, if you cant use a needle this treatment is not for you. tb4 is a peptide and a very large one(mw in the several thousands) topical use isnt even close to an option, its also fragile(you cant even shake the vial without destroying the peptide) even if the derma roller could possibly get some in, it would only get whats near the holes, so a small percentage basically, with a cheap stable drug like spironolactone, a dermaroller is an option, but with tb4, considering only a small amount would get in with a dermaroller, you would need to apply like 30 mgs everytime you rolled.....thats like 600 bucks for each time you do it, not an option...tb4 is an injectable treatment, it works wonders but thats the catch, you need a needle, again, no needle, just find something else forget about this one.



Date Posted: 08/04/2012 02:25 PM
Posted By: 2020_2 (Accomplished Poster)

moved:
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/fo...did=101257&startpage=1

Edited: 08/04/2012 at 02:42 PM by 2020_2



Date Posted: 08/04/2012 04:49 PM
Posted By: icdalite (Regular Poster)

Originally posted by: jimbo69

dermaroller is a waste of time and money, if you cant use a needle this treatment is not for you. tb4 is a peptide and a very large one(mw in the several thousands) topical use isnt even close to an option, its also fragile(you cant even shake the vial without destroying the peptide) even if the derma roller could possibly get some in, it would only get whats near the holes, so a small percentage basically, with a cheap stable drug like spironolactone, a dermaroller is an option, but with tb4, considering only a small amount would get in with a dermaroller, you would need to apply like 30 mgs everytime you rolled.....thats like 600 bucks for each time you do it, not an option...tb4 is an injectable treatment, it works wonders but thats the catch, you need a needle, again, no needle, just find something else forget about this one.



If you "can't shake the vial without destroying the peptide" then would it still be in a usable condition after what its gone through in transit...