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Topic Title: Bosley In General - What are the Drawbacks?
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Created On: 05/05/2009 09:36 PM
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 05/05/2009 09:36 PM
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help101
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Am I missing something, or would a Bosley transplant not be the perfect solution for someone who has a receding hairline? I'm sure there are drawbacks, but are they that substantial? Are the scars that severe? Is it too expensive? Is the possibility for failure too great? It just seems like a Bosley or similar treatment would be the answer to many of the problems that Fin, Dut, Rogaine, etc. are only hoping to solve, and with considerably fewer side effects.

Are the doctors being referred to on this forum Bosley doctors, or who are they affiliated with?

Also - how much does a typical Bosley practice cost?
 05/05/2009 11:02 PM
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Leeson
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Why go to a hair mill where you outcome is uncertain, when for probably less $ you can go to a private doc and get world class results. This is your appearance, your gambling your future looks.
Never go into this without doing a TON of research on your doc. (I just recently had my 9th, count them NINE! because I had your attitude. Costed me more money than you can imagine to fix the previous work.
A bad transplant is worst than being bald.
Rules
1. never let travel be an obstacle (most docs will reimburse your travel)
2. don't let cost dictate your doctor


Hair mills are guided by their bottom line $$$. More transplants=more $.
Research whomever you choose, so you aren't on here in 6 months asking about how to get your hair repaired.
Good luck and don't be afraid to ask too many questions, it's your head on the line.

Edited: 05/05/2009 at 11:08 PM by Leeson
 05/06/2009 12:16 AM
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GSNYC
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Welcome to the site! The name Bosley has a special place in the HT world. Please keep reading and researching (I truly hope you are not planning a HT soon?). Knowledge is our most powerful weapon. Without it, we can end up scarred and emotionally devastated for life, simply from one uneducated decision.
 05/06/2009 02:25 AM
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calvinmd
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The big issue that seems to be missing in the original question, is the fact that not all HTs are created equal.



Bosley is all advertising. They're a "hair mill" like MHR. They're dedicated to getting business by shooting for the less-informed audience and then overstating what their results will be in order to get them into that chair that first time.

The first HT is VITAL to these places. Because once they've strip-scarred you then in most cases you'll keep coming back for more work until your donor hair (or money) is all gone. They don't care that you may never have gotten what you were promised and that you wish you'd never had the first HT because they've got your money now.

This may sound like the angry ranting of a disappointed former Bosley patient, but let me assure you it's not. I've never had a HT in fact. I just see & hear what they have done to SO MANY OTHER GUYS for DECADES.




A real respectable quality HT clinic is a different animal. For starters, the won't flat-out lie to you like Bosley will. And they're reliable to at least use competent trained docs/techs so your head is not serving as anybody's on-the-job training (which happens at hair mills quite often).

The real HT clinics are actually CHEAPER than the hair mills a lot of the time too, once you count the rear hairs-per-dollar in total. The Bosley type shops do smaller sessions which are cheaper in a single sitting but that's just because it's easier for them to do it and it gets them more customers to offer a low first-time price for work. (The fact that their little 1200-graft improvement is barely even cosmetically noticeable when it's done . . . well, that's why they think you'll probably come back to them for 2-4 more times now!)





A real HT clinic gets adequate costomers with modest advertising, and they make their money on offering decent & honest work.

A hair mill like Bosley makes their money on misleading people with advertising, and then selling mediocre work once the patient is forced to continue with more HTs after that first disappointing one.

 05/06/2009 08:02 AM
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Innermind
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Mcdonalds cheeseburger for 5 dollars or certified prime steak burger from a nice resturant for 5 dollars? Which would you rather eat?

-------------------------
F@(K it! No treatments. Nothing. Im done wasting money.
Dr. Thomas (scum) Wentland-1800 hairs, destroyed my life.
Dr. Ron Shapiro- 176 FUE into scar. Happy with results.
Buzzing my head no guard, happy except for the marks left from scumland, i mean Dr. wentland.
 05/06/2009 08:07 AM
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Leeson
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Another thing is reputation. Many top docs care about their rep and these sites share that info. Bosley / MHR doesn't care, b/c their rep is horrible, so it's not like if they do another bad job, it's going to hurt their rep. Their rep is already sh*t. For the exact same price or LESS, you could go to the likes of Hasson & Wong, Feller, Shapiro (Minnasota), Alexander, Etc.
 05/06/2009 09:50 AM
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help101
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Thank you so much for the info.

I'm not looking for a HT any time in the immediate future. I've currently been on a daily regimen of Fin for the past year (actually, 1 year as of Friday, May 8th). My hair line has been decimated, IMO, and I'm already a guy with a naturally large forehead. So far, my crown seems to have stayed in tack, knock on wood, but the doctor that prescribed Fin for me said that I will likely be bald in the next 3-4 years (now 2-3 years, eek!). I would say that I might not even be a NW 2 at this point, but again, I have next to nothing in the form of a hair line. Everything has receded pretty evenly, with only slightly more of a recession at my corner temples.


I am only 23 1/2 years old and currently finishing up my first year of law school. My father was a NW 6 at age 33 ish, so I feel like its coming for me too. I really am OK with my appearance save the hairline thing, as I'm in pretty good shape. Right now, I'm just trying to gather as much information as possible with the thought of potentially going through with an HT in 2-3 more yeas when I'm out of school and have an income.

I am curious how much I should expect a HT to cost to restore a hair line? Are the scars from the donor sites going to be that noticeable? Also, just logistically, is a HT something that could be done in a weekend, a week, or would you likely not want to go out in public for a couple weeks following the procedure? Just any info you guys could provide is much appreciated. I am not on the Bosley bandwagon, to be sure, but was curious why other people were not given the results they claim. Now I think it's a little more clear.
 05/06/2009 10:07 AM
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Leeson
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If the doc thinks you will lose it all in a few years, you ought to ask him to prescibe avodart (stronger version of propecia). You'll need a few weeks off if not shaven. Law School huh, yea I remember my days in Law School. Had a procedure over Christmas break back then, so I had enough time to heal.
 05/06/2009 10:58 AM
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the B spot
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Hi Help101--- I think given your age, it is tough--- I started losing at 23 as well.

I think what would help us out is if you cost post some clear pics of your current level of loss. In that respect, we could tell you if your just over-reacting a bit to a difficult situation, knowing you may be headed toward a higher level of loss, OR, if you have some legitimate concerns, that may be address using Meds/Concealers/and possibly surgery as an option.

Also, make full use of the search feature on age, a particular clinic that catches your eye, FUE, Strip, pro's and con's of doing a HT in your 20's, etc...

As a fellow law student, I know you know how to do research, especially after 1st year =)

Of course, continue asking questions--there is no "bright line" with age, but most ethical clinics will generally not be very aggressive with younger patients, and at this point, should be pointing them toward FUE as a better, 1st option.

Take Care,
Jason


-------------------------
FUE Coordinator for Shapiro Medical. My opinions are my own and are not medical advice. Take care not to fall for a sales pitch from clinics who must smear other clinics to get business.
jason@shapiromedical.com

6721 grafts 2 strip sessions
1386 FUE grafts
8107 total
Dr. Ron Shapiro
 05/06/2009 03:49 PM
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john36
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removed by author



Edited: 05/31/2009 at 09:58 AM by john36
 05/06/2009 08:02 PM
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calvinmd
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I agree with B-spot and also with john36.


-- Twenty-three is typically too young to start getting HT safely. It's risky to predict that you're not in for any MPB due to good family history. And if MPB has already gotten visible in a large pattern then it's even riskier to try to predict a future loss pattern at this age. The odds get SO MUCH BETTER at predicting lifetime loss between 20 and 30. Every year you wait improves your odds of guessing right.


-- And if you do get HT now, you'd be wise to go with only FUE work in the early years, It doesn't totally rule out the "buzz-it-down-and-forget-it" option later on.

 05/06/2009 10:00 PM
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the B spot
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Yes, I do want to clarify that statement as well-- I think getting a HT before 25 is extremely risky, however, should these younger men chose to go this route, then FUE is the BEST choice to start with.

My issue is that we as learned members can do two things:
#1. Inform the younger man/woman about the inherent risks and dangers associated with getting a HT at an early age--educate them as to the use of concealers/meds/topicals to combat hairloss while researching/gaining knowledge.

#2. If they are not to be dissuaded from getting a HT, attempt to put them in the hands of an ethical clinic that will properly plan for the patients future (as much as possibly) while warning the patient of the pros and cons of a HT.

This board has been under fire from claims of expanded donor and aggressive HT's for a couple of years....like everything else, the pendulum has swung back more toward the middle, with putting more of a quantitative number on donor availability, transplanted density--and most importantly viability of transplanting high density and keeping the grafts out of the body for extended periods of time.

We need to remember, hair transplantation is a balance between a patients wants and needs, with an eye ALWAYS toward future loss. Any movement toward the patient "wants" that has the potential to compromise "needs" creates a conflict and as such the INFORMED and EDUCATED patient needs to be aware of. Additionally, sometimes it does NOT matter if the patient is informed and educated, their desire for a particular approach is just too short-term goal orientated...they need to be educated as to why an approach is improper and then turned away if they cannot accept a more conservative session.

We can be more aggressive with hairlines and placement, but there has to some sort of criteria to establish what type of patients are candidates for aggressive densities and hairline placements, or aggressive crown work for that matter.

The real loser is the patient, and subsequently the hairloss community that praises or embraces unsubstantiated claims or gimmick type surgeries or approaches.

There is NO MIRACLE DONOR and MATH ALWAYS TELLS THE TRUTH...that is all, period...the math never lies--regardless of how grafts are extracted, split, not-split, etc... there is finite threshold of donor extraction and there is a finite area of coverage--each patient is different and should be assessed as such.

Many people come and go, and various clinics come and go for an assortment of reasons....look for stability and lack of controversy. Look for consistency and happy patients over an extended period of time 5-8-10-12 years.

And most important, meet and talk to former patients in person if at all possible...you will see the difference right away in the work from a elite clinic vs a clinic who does good work vs a clinic that does poor work.

Sorry so long,
Take Care,
Jason

-------------------------
FUE Coordinator for Shapiro Medical. My opinions are my own and are not medical advice. Take care not to fall for a sales pitch from clinics who must smear other clinics to get business.
jason@shapiromedical.com

6721 grafts 2 strip sessions
1386 FUE grafts
8107 total
Dr. Ron Shapiro
 05/07/2009 07:08 AM
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help101
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Thanks for the replies.

Again, to reiterate, I'm only beginning the research now with an eye towards possibility getting a HT 2-3 years down the line when I'm done with school and have an income. That would put me in the 25-27 range. Is that still too early to think about this? I started gradually beginning to recede about 15 months ago, at age 22.

Can someone just throw around some numbers here. How much for each typical procedure? Im just looking for ballpark information as to roughly how much something like this would cost.

Further, what is a FUE? I'm lost on the lingo.

Thanks so much everyone!
 05/07/2009 10:11 AM
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calvinmd
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The short answer is that you'll generally spend a good $10K for an improvement that's enough for another person to see at all. You can easily spend $30K for extensive HT work over several sessions.



The costs are measured in dollars per graft.

A "graft" is a single chunk of skin being moved during the HT, containing anywhere from 1-5 hairs in it. The hairline costs more than average in proportion to the hair coverage you get, because it must be done mostly with single-hair grafts to look nice.




FUE is one type of HT surgery, "Strip" is the other. They both involve the same methods of re-implanting the grafts into the thinning areas, they're just two different methods of extracting those grafts from the donor area. Strip has been the industry standard for a couple decades but FUE is relatively new.

A "strip" surgery is basically removing a long thin strip of scalp skin and then suturing the wound closed (stretching the skin back together to close it, which is why the strip must be very thin). The strip of skin is divided up into a couple thousand individual grafts after they have it off your head.



FUE . . .

Do you know what a hole saw is? Like, a tubular drill bit with serrated edges, that drills out a round chunk of wood?

Well, FUE is basically removing the grafts from your donor area one at a time with a tiny hole-saw. (Like removing 0.7-1.0mm diameter chunks. The smallest possible chunk they can use just to get the follicles out intact.) They take hairs randomly from all over your donor area, spreading out the loss so it's less noticeable than a single huge strip-scar wound.

The point of this method is to avoid the visible strip scar in favor of thousands of tiny little wounds that will heal with only a little dot scar. It's not perfect, but at least you can buzz your head down to a short stubble later on, and not show the scarring much.

FUE probably sounds better in every way on paper, but in practice it's a very expensive method. And it also offers 2X as much opportunity to damage the grafts with the surgical tools. The graft survival & regrowth rate from FUE has been a sore point. Until fairly recently, it has struggled to produce the same results as strip, although its record has been improving.


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