hair loss help.com is your complete hair loss guide and resource for info about Propecia, Rogaine, minoxidil, transplants, thymuskin, Revivogen, folliguard, tricomin and other hair loss and baldness remedies
Hair Loss Help
Decrease font size
Increase font size
Topic Title: why is Dr. Zontos so good at FUE?
Topic Summary:
Created On: 04/30/2004 10:02 AM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
1 2 Next Last unread
Search Topic Search Topic
Topic Tools Topic Tools
View similar topics View similar topics
View topic in raw text format. Print this topic.
 04/30/2004 10:02 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
hatesonion
Accomplished Poster

Posts: 797
Joined: 07/21/2002

whats his secret?

will he move to america?
 04/30/2004 10:09 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
TomOmasta
Accomplished Poster

Posts: 2759
Joined: 12/12/2002

Lets not jump to conclusions just yet... lets wait and see the after shots.. But form what i have seen, its excellant placement and the donor sites are among the best.. Im getting a bit anxious to see guys like Akonsta's after shots... Id like to see him come to the US as well... The time for large sessions of FUE is now... Let the games begin
 04/30/2004 10:19 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
hatesonion
Accomplished Poster

Posts: 797
Joined: 07/21/2002

i can't fly to dhi over there.. I get sick flying over 3 hours

I would have to take a ship from new york harbor to the UK then fly there

 04/30/2004 10:41 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
NotBald
Accomplished Poster

Posts: 931
Joined: 01/01/2003

i think, zontos is too good at placing the grafts. he is up there with hasson/wong likes with regards to dense packing. as tom said we have to wait n see the yield. if the yield is good (80% or higher) he will be the #1 surgeon. i really like to see akonsta's posts these days.

also KG has backed his words with actions. he has incorporated lateral slits/dense packing, eliminated strip incorporated fue. dhi is now truly a state of art hair transplant clinic with all the latest techniques.

actually i m praying that these dhi guys get consistent good growth so i can book my flight to athens.
 04/30/2004 11:16 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
TomOmasta
Accomplished Poster

Posts: 2759
Joined: 12/12/2002

I think there going to open offices in the US sometime soon i believe.. Not sure if "The Wizard Of ZondOZ" is going to work there or not.. I tried to talk Akonsta about getting an office here in PA so we can finally end the Dr. Dominic A.Brandy cult here in Pittsburgh... People are still being mutilated by him here, and he runs his advertising commercial here at least once a day..
 04/30/2004 11:23 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Peter Mac
Accomplished Poster

Posts: 5747
Joined: 10/25/2002

Quote

i can't fly to dhi over there.. I get sick flying over 3 hours

I would have to take a ship from new york harbor to the UK then fly there
I don't get sick, but I absolutely go stir crazy. I've decided I'll have to take a laptop computer next time and a ton of work to do to keep myself busy and focus on working. That's the best way to pass the time. Flying overseas is a long flight, but well worth it.



www.dhimedical.com
 04/30/2004 11:27 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Peter Mac
Accomplished Poster

Posts: 5747
Joined: 10/25/2002

Quote

I think, zontos is too good at placing the grafts. he is up there with hasson/wong likes with regards to dense packing. as tom said we have to wait n see the yield. if the yield is good (80% or higher) he will be the #1 surgeon. i really like to see akonsta's posts these days.
Remember a couple things on yield. If 81% of the transplanted hair is growing it usually means 90% yield. Here's why: 10% of all hairs are usually in telogen at any given point in time. So you should expect 90% of hairs to be in anagen or growing phase at any given point in time. If your transplant had 90% yield that means you would have 81% of the hairs growing at any given point (90% of 90% is 81%).


www.dhimedical.com
 04/30/2004 11:28 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
pop
Regular Poster

Posts: 167
Joined: 03/11/2004

Peter,

What do you make of these nhi donor pics?
 04/30/2004 11:43 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
TomOmasta
Accomplished Poster

Posts: 2759
Joined: 12/12/2002

I sw the donor from NHI and it looks very good.. Its definately NOT your standard 1mm punch.. IMO, i would stay away from NHI, there prices are rediculously high for FUE right now.. IMO, there are cheaper surgeons out there that have good experience with FUE, and dont rape your pocket book..
 04/30/2004 12:32 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
gonzo1
Prolific Poster

Posts: 240
Joined: 02/02/2004

It's not just the fact that Dr Zondos has mastered palcement so that it looks natural but that he also understands and takes a personal interest in the patient - he will spend as long as you like discussing hairline design etc so that you (the patient) will be toatally happy with the final asthetic affect.

I of course will be mounting a campaign to block any visa application to the US - he needs to be close to us Brits in case we want any further work carried out by him

Cheers

G
 05/01/2004 07:59 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
jethro
Occasional Poster

Posts: 16
Joined: 02/11/2004

Why is Dr Zontos so good at FUE?? --- Sorry, but we don't even have proof he can do FUE other that produce nice EARLY postop photos.

FACT: > there hasn't been shown one DHI pt with proven FUE growth (ie, 6,9,12 months postop photos)

> 0.5-0.8mm punch instruments have NO proven track record that they have acceptable transection rates (<5%), or have adequate postop photo results to
show the graft actually survived being extracted with these small tools.

ANY arguments to say they are new to FUE and don't have photos yet is not a valid excuse when you do a marketing blitz proclaiming world record FUE sessions and have an advanced superior tool to do FUE.

Why the hell would any MD or clinic make such proclamations and market it so aggressively when they HAVE NO marketing proof that their product works (Could it be $$$$). IN this business -- Photos are the only communicable proof a consumer can have.

I'd prefer not to hear another postop (marketing) DHI story until they can show me an FUE pt >6 months postop w/ good photos. If, in time they produce results, I will be the first one on a plane to Greece.
 05/01/2004 08:32 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
gonzo1
Prolific Poster

Posts: 240
Joined: 02/02/2004

Jethro

I think that is what DHI are trying to achieve by plotting progress with the patients they selected for the 'free sessions' over the next 12 months - However, I wasn't one of them - I was a paying client.

You may make quite valid points but you can't knock DHI for attemting to meet some of your concerns about yield and the long term outcome.

Who knows, I am really happy at the moment with what has been done but i may not get the final result which i want - only time will tell. In the meantime give them a break - i can't see many other clinics who are seriously attempting to establish the long term outcome for patients after FUE.

Yes, the palcement achieved by DR Z is excellent - that must be a good starting point surely?

I can assure you that after my experience with DHI, they are not just interested in getting your money - they do genuinely care about the standard of their work and patient care but one has to remember that they are a business as well and not a charitable organistaion. I personally think they have the balnce right but I respect your point of view as well. Let's hope you feel the same in around 6-12 months and that you too will be on that plane to Athens.

All the best

G

 05/01/2004 09:41 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
hatesonion
Accomplished Poster

Posts: 797
Joined: 07/21/2002

Quote

Originally posted by: jethro
Why is Dr Zontos so good at FUE?? --- Sorry, but we don't even have proof he can do FUE other that produce nice EARLY postop photos.



FACT: > there hasn't been shown one DHI pt with proven FUE growth (ie, 6,9,12 months postop photos)



> 0.5-0.8mm punch instruments have NO proven track record that they have acceptable transection rates (<5%), or have adequate postop photo results to

show the graft actually survived being extracted with these small tools.



ANY arguments to say they are new to FUE and don't have photos yet is not a valid excuse when you do a marketing blitz proclaiming world record FUE sessions and have an advanced superior tool to do FUE.



Why the hell would any MD or clinic make such proclamations and market it so aggressively when they HAVE NO marketing proof that their product works (Could it be $$$$). IN this business -- Photos are the only communicable proof a consumer can have.



I'd prefer not to hear another postop (marketing) DHI story until they can show me an FUE pt >6 months postop w/ good photos. If, in time they produce results, I will be the first one on a plane to Greece.




jethro has some good points, maybe I shouldn't get my hopes up yet

but if those fue's start growing out in 5-6 months thick, we are in good shape
 05/01/2004 11:54 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Juiceman
Accomplished Poster

Posts: 858
Joined: 12/15/2002

Jethro,

I also think that you make some very good points and I agree that we must still wait to accurately judge the results of some of DHI's recent work. I have seen some of DHI's work post op in person as well as photos and It is truly promising. IMO. I would like to see Vaclav's progress and also Samir's and some of the other FUE patients of this year.

I would also add that DHI is taking a calculated business risk in highly publicizing their recent post op FUE patients. If these patients results do not cut the muster, then, this will be well known throughout the forums and the hair transplant community. It is a ballsy move and they must know that they will have to produce top shelf work.

Edited: 05/01/2004 at 12:04 PM by Juiceman
 05/01/2004 03:25 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
SCARY
Prolific Poster

Posts: 325
Joined: 02/22/2002

The photos straight after surgery do indeed look very impressive . I really do hope they all get a good yield & we can then move DHI up near the top of the list .
However , because I was impressed at their new photos I decided to check their website . The photos on the site showing fully grown out tansplants are very disappointing to say the least . How come the post op photos are so impressive but the finished work doesn't look very good ?
Are there any photos of finished DHI strip transplants anywhere that look any good ?

Just saying what I see .
 05/01/2004 04:50 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
gonzo1
Prolific Poster

Posts: 240
Joined: 02/02/2004

Scary

I do agree but i have also noticed on their site that a lot of the early work were of very small sessions - it was only earlier this year that they started to perform 3000+- I think it is those results which they will eventually be judged on. You will also be aware that the patients they selected for posting their results over the coming year are much larger procedures, so Juiceman is right, we will need to see updates on those recent cases like Vaclev's, SamsonUK and no doubt my own which involved more grafts or at least more dense packing to make a final verdict.

Please keep your fingers crossed for those of us who are involved!!

Cheers G
 05/02/2004 11:01 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
akonsta
Prolific Poster

Posts: 306
Joined: 01/08/2004

Dear Members,

DHI will post photos of our patients (and especially of the big sessions) at the specified time periods. We are all anticipated to see the final results, but in this science, patience must be a virtue and not jump to quick conclusions.
Thank you all!
 05/03/2004 08:25 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
Dr. Feller
Accomplished Poster

Posts: 1387
Joined: 12/14/2002

Transection is NOT a real problem with respect to FUE. At least not anymore so than with strip surgery. The misconception that the size of the tool greatly influences scalp graft trauma (less than 1mm) seems to be gaining momentum on the boards and it simply is NOT true.

There are factors that affect the success of individual follicular unit extractions, but the size of the tool is not necessarily one of them. Some patients will benefit from .8mm punches, some will do better with 1mm punches. A patient whose grafts were extracted using a .8mm tool may NOT heal as well as the patient who had a 1mm tool used. In the end it comes down to patient physiology.

DHIs FUE work looks excellent. The amount of hours and effort that has gone into the cases posted on the web are to be applauded and I anticipate impressive results. Again, patient physiology will play a big role in the final result, and even if these results aren't comparable to strip, the fact remains that they SHOULD be. Even a poor result would be beneficial as we would know what NOT to do. This would be valuable data.

So far ALL of my FUE patients have grown well, but until recently most of my FUE works has been confined to small patches or just fill-in work. But I've often questioned why an FUE transplant WOULDN'T grow as well as an equivalent FUT transplant, and the only thing I can come up with is graft tension. That is, the amount of pulling and other forces necessary to remove the graft intact. Thinking along these lines I have invented (and applied for patents) on tools to decrease the involved forces. I've found that these tools and techniques decrease stress on the surgeon as well as decreasing overall surgical time. They have allowed me to pull out greater numbers of grafts in ever shorter periods of time without increasing the forces on the grafts.

As usual, time will tell, and time IS on the side of the FUE surgeon. We need more doctors practicing FUE worldwide.

Dr Feller
Specializing FUE and STRIP HT
Great Neck, NY
www.fellermedical.com
516-487-3797
 05/03/2004 08:51 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
TomOmasta
Accomplished Poster

Posts: 2759
Joined: 12/12/2002

The .1mm punch made a different in healing with me as opposed to the smaller .75mm punch.. There is a clear difference if someone decides to shave there head and go this route with FUE.. If anyone doesnt agree, your welcome to take a close look at my head.. BTW, i heard Dr.Cole ask his tech when using the different punches if he could see a difference, and he said yes... Im not sure if it makes a difference if you decide to go with longer hair, but it DOES make a difference when you shave you head..Petermac can back me up on this one.. BTW, i hear a few docs lately saying that the smaller tool may lead to higher transection, im not sure if i buy that. Dr.Woods has used a much smaller tool on his patients for quite some time now and hasnt had any problems.. DHI has pushed the limit with the smaller punches and we shall see very soon what the outcome is.. All i know is that when it comes to surgery, i want the smallest tool cutting into my scalp as possible..i think the .1mm punch sjhould only be used on larger 3-4 hair grafts... why use a .1mm punch on a one hair graft?> probably because it is faster for the doc to extract... I cant tell you for a fact being that i shave my head that there is a difference when the hair is cut this close.. Dr.Cole used a 0.75mm punch for alot of the grafts, they had no problem growing..... Id like to know what size tool Dr.Woods is using, i know it is quite tiny.. Take a look at PHOTOMATTS donor site form Woods... I dont believe that he had any problem whatsoever with yield and transection, but THAT comes down to the doctor.. Im anxious to see DHI'S results, there donor sites are close to Woods' in size...
 05/03/2004 10:22 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message

Author Icon
b-mann
Regular Poster

Posts: 157
Joined: 02/07/2004

I must agree with TomOmasta on this one. There is no reason, "physiological" or otherwise, why a 1mm punch site could ever heal better than a .75mm punch site. The smaller the site the quicker the healing time, the faster it takes to fill in and regenerate scar tissue, which leads to point #2..

Point #2: When extracting the follicles via any punch method you are removing tissue. The larger the punch the more tissue removed, the smaller the punch the less tissue removed. As such, the hole that remains will coagulate with blood and regenerate tissue to close the hole. The tissue that is regenerated will have no pigment. On the scalp this is less of an issue because most people tend to have very pale scalps due to the limited exposure to the sun. However, the scar tissue will not tan, no melanin and no pigment in it. As such, if you do choose to shave down the hair to very short levels, you will indeed see the hundreds and thousands of dots. The larger the punch, the larger the dots and the more noticeable it becomes. If you decide to wear your hair very short and get a tan, you will make the pigmentless scar tissue look even more obvious. If the dots are very small, less than 1mm, they will be less apparant. .8 will look better than .1 and .65 will look better than .8 etc.

Finally the most telling reason for using a smaller punch is transection. Wait a minute, I thought that the smaller the punch the greater the risk of transection, not the bigger the punch? WRONG, at least not in B-Manns crazy world, let me explain...

As we all know at any given time there is hair that is dormant and hair that is visible. The dormant hair is not visible because it is not yet growing. By using a larger punch you run the risk of transecting the dormant follicles that surround the visible one. While the visible one is less likely to be transected due to a larger margin of error with the larger punch, there is a greater risk of transecting dormant hairs all around the graft you are attempting to extract.


For these reasons I would not allow a 1mm punch to extract a large amount of grafts from my head. Yes, for larger grafts it would be more ideal but, for a single hair graft it is just "passe" in terms of what is being done by most of the FUE Dr's in megasessions.
Statistics
36320 users are registered to the Hair Loss Help forum.
There are currently 0 users logged in.
The most users ever online was 26705 on 04/09/2017 at 11:57 PM.
There are currently 244 guests browsing this forum, which makes a total of 244 users using this forum.

FuseTalk Basic Edition v3.2 - © 1999-2019 FuseTalk Inc. All rights reserved.

Copyright 2001-2017 - All Rights Reserved - Hairlosshelp, Inc