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Topic Title: Lee S. before and after photos , DHI FUE grafts 8000 in total
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Created On: 03/19/2004 07:23 AM
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 03/19/2004 07:23 AM
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akonsta
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Here are the latest photos of Lee.

Before:

photo1
photo2
photo3
photo4
photo5
photo6
photo7
photo8
photo9
photo10
photo11
photo12



After , 18th March:

photo 1
photo 2
photo 3
photo 4
photo 5
photo 6
 03/19/2004 07:42 AM
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uknoobie
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Once again nice clear pics from every angle possible. Thanks!

Lee,
Can you just do a quick recap of what you have had done thus far as depicted in the pics. The heading says 8000 grafts in the frontal area but I think that is just a reference of what you aim to achieve. Also, were the grafts only extracted from the right side of the donar region at this stage as the left side looks untouched? & finally, is the little island of hairs on your vertex, body hair grafts?

You must be absolutely delighted!

Look forward to reading your next journal entry.

Edited: 03/19/2004 at 07:57 AM by uknoobie
 03/19/2004 09:32 AM
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acfava
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what norwood would Lee be considered?
 03/19/2004 09:36 AM
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FUTzyhead
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Lee-
I can't WAIT to see how this turns out! Very interesting to say the least!
 03/19/2004 09:56 AM
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Mr.Bill
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Acfava,

When MPB extends behind your crown and past the top of you ears, that my friend is NW 7.

I think Lee will be the FUE poster child for many concerns regarding FUE: NW 7, body hair in excess of 3k, head hair in excess of 5k, total number of fue 8k+.

Whats amazing to me is the trauma aspect. Or lack therof. Lee's head looks like it was poked with a small pin. The extraction sites are already closing. His hairline already looks better and there is very little redness. As always time will tell. A year from now will be interesting indeed.

Looks good Lee! Best wishes

And great pix as always Akonsta.

Thanks
 03/19/2004 10:06 AM
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b-mann
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This guy aint getting 5000 head hair grafts, no way.

I cant wait to see the final count because 5000 doesnt seem probable or even possible based on the photos and the severity of his hair loss.

Body hair is an entirely different issue, with limitless possibilities.

In MY opinion, this guy would have been so much better off doing a single megasession strip with H&W and then following it up with FUE. His head was virgin, his laxity looks great (look at the wrinkles of scalp tissue on the crown photo) and based on how he wore his hair, the scar would be invisible and a non issue with the best hairline imaginable by H or W.

Geeze, no I'm starting to sound like a commercial and i never used H&W.
 03/19/2004 11:06 AM
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Fit4FIT
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B-mann for once I agree with you...

Hell, Im worried for this guy I really dont think he's got the donor - if he does this could be proof that there is hope for virtually everyone...

The work looks excellent quality though
 03/19/2004 11:09 AM
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Dean
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I have to say my initial reaction is to agree with b-mann. I'm not sure this guy is even a viable candidate, much less that they're going to get that many grafts out of him. (6000 MORE!!) I'll be highly surprised and impressed if they do and evenmoreso if it's a good result.
 03/19/2004 11:30 AM
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Chris Clark
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I like it when Lee said he's a Norwood 6.5. His crown dips very low into the Norwood 7 zone, but the sides are still fairly high up--almost Norwood 6 sides. If his sides were fringe Norwood 7 then he'd get far fewer grafts. Lee had better be on Propecia or I think this might be a disaster as the grafts higher up get attacked by MPB. That's the only way I see him getting 5000 grafts. Every last inch of his remaining donor hair has to be taken. Even then I think it's pushing it. I'm really curious to see photos of this 1 year from now. B-mann, Lee doesn't want strip. He always wanted FUE, Norwood 7 or not. This should be a case study for FUE on patients with advanced balding once it grows in.
 03/19/2004 12:38 PM
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b-mann
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WOW! I fully expected to come back and be attacked, I am not accustomed to people agreeing with me

If you closely inspect his after photos, you will see that he has completely tapped the side of the head (right side?) and nearly all of the back. It isn't clear how far around the back and over to the other side of the head those extractions lead. If in fact my description is accurate and he has tapped all of one side and the back to yield 1800 grafts, then I cannot see how it would be possible to get another 3200 or even another 1800 when over 2/3rds of the donor area has been touched.

Furthermore, while I agree the donor area looks clean and acceptable, I am concerned about a few things with Lee.

1. Why put 80+ grafts per cm/sq in his hairline when he has so much bald area to cover, thinner donor area and sides (after FUE) and a finite amount of donor hair to transplant?

2. What will Lees donor areas look like after so many grafts have been extracted?

3. What will the rest of the scalp look like with 80! per cm/sq densly packed up front and only 30 cm/sq as you procede further back towards the crown?

4. Is no one else concerned that based on Lees genetic balding pattern that many of the grafts harvested high on the sides may very well be programmed to die in the very near future? My concern is that the high sides are more likely to die sooner than the more "permanent" hair in the back of the head.


Any comments?
 03/19/2004 12:43 PM
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Dean
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I agree he should DEFINITELY be on Avodart. Forget propecia at this stage.

Definitely going to be an interesting case.

Edited: 03/19/2004 at 12:44 PM by Dean
 03/19/2004 01:20 PM
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Fit4FIT
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I dont want to be a pessimist but I feel sorry for him - I really think hes screwed, the back will look SO thin man, I just hope he has BH

If DHI pull this off they are miracle workers - and I hope they are...
 03/19/2004 01:51 PM
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Mr.Bill
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Geez, guys. Let Lee get the work done first.

I will admit when I saw Pic 1 of donor I said "how in the hell are they going to take 5k?" but the way you guys are making it out: NO NW 7 SHOULD GET HT.

Maybe that is a true statement.

Maybe a NW7 regardless of the Doc or technique should go for coverage and then buzz cut it.

Then again a bic razor IS much cheaper.

OTOH it may be that Lee has high #/cm2 of donor. Or perhaps he has so much body hair you'd have enough for TWO heads.

But how bout some support for the guy?

Good luck Lee and keep sending the pix. Then we'll rip you
 03/19/2004 02:57 PM
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teenhairloss
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That's 8000 grafts on his head?
 03/19/2004 03:02 PM
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Photomatt
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Donor sites look very good and clean...surprisingly small and targeted. As far as how his donor will look is all speculation...this will be interesting.....after all...many have said you couldn't get more than 4k on even a nw5 pattern without looking moth eaten.

I think FUE is smart for Lee....if he chooses down the road he can buzz his head very close and look very acceptable...like a guy with thin hair and not bald. Either way....this is exciting to watch and we are all beneffiting from this so Lee...thank you for sharing your story.

 03/19/2004 04:29 PM
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dj
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I agree with Photomatt. I would like to know whether Lee has a lot of body hair and plenty to fill in any further recession on the sides and back if he needs it, over the years. I believe hm will be coming out, but when is a roll in the hay...... oh, I mean dice ) Anyway, good luck Lee, and we are looking forward to your great growth and new looks...

dj
 03/19/2004 04:39 PM
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uknoobie
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Yes, I agree that DHI are exploring uncharted territories. However, I'm sure that there werer similar 'gasps' of disbelief when H&W announced they were going to do 5000+ megasessions. Fortuneatly, they proved it can be done. Lets keep our fingers crossed that DHI can do the same with FUE!















Edited: 03/19/2004 at 04:45 PM by uknoobie
 03/19/2004 07:36 PM
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Lee_S
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I just got out of a 11 hour surgery and at this point we have done a total of 3,850 so we are close to half way. We are still on track. Let me answer the questions listed and clear up a few misconceptions.

uknoobie - I will have 8,000 total grafts which I guarantee is only available for me with FUE, not strip. On the pictures here I have about 2,560 grafts. As you can see the frontal zone was not filled in totally yet on the right side of my head as we needed to wait until the next session to extract more "Triples".

I can't tell you how elated I am after tonight's surgery. We are still on track to extract what the doctors originally calculated (5,200 head and 2,800 or possibly even more body hairs). My chest and abdomin hair extraction went extremely well tonight, and Joy (who trims them) made the comment it was the best body hair she has ever seen. Look exactly like head hair when trimming (very clear, etc) and in the head there is no way for me to tell the difference. Dr. Zontos calculates he can extract 2,000 from the chest and abdomin without taking it all based on how it went tonight. I have a lot of hair on the back but we haven't tried it yet, so we'll see. However, I expect we should be able to get the rest from the back easily. Dr. Zontos said we'll take it all. I hate back hair. Guys, it's going fantastic.

acfava - I am a class 7, but as Chris Clark indicates my sides are probably a 6.5 at least in my opinion.

Chris Clark - I am 43 years old and have not lost any additional hair in the last 5 years, so my loss has stabilized. I have tried propecia and minox for years and it didn't stop me from going to my God-given natural genetic Norwood scale. However, once I arrived at that it stopped about 5 years ago. I am not concerned about extraction from too high in the donor area. If I had not stabilized my loss than I would agree with you.

Mr. Bill - Thanks for the support. I do have a high density in my donor area, or at least above average. This certainly helps. You are very correct that the trama has been low. I will use Minox to minimize the possibility of shock loss in my donor area. However, Dr. Zontos has been very careful not to extract too many from any area so I am suspecting this won't happen. Time will tell, but if it does it should be temporary. As you say, the holes are healing quite nicely already from Monday's and Wednesday's surgeries. The hairline redness is reducing and I can tell a big difference today (it was planted on Monday).

Oh, I've tried shaving the head and as you can tell the mountain on the back with the hump in the middle is just not becoming to me.

b-mann - I'm sorry but I'll have to totally disagree with your comments. First of all, how the HELL do you think you can tell my scalp laxity just by looking at a picture, and how do you know how I want to wear my hair in the future. I don't have good scalp laxity, and what you are seeing is fat in the nape of my neck. That's below my neck my friend...not on the head. My head is very tight. Besides, even if I had good laxity I would never do the strip surgery. I just don't believe in it, sorry. I want the option to wear my hair short as the style is today if I prefer (I may not, but I want that option). Also, I don't want all of the possible trama problems with strip, which we have argued about many times on these forums.

Also, body hair does NOT provide limitless possibilties as you said. It does provide a lot of help in my case, but not limitless. Dr. Zontos is very careful not to take too many body hairs as this can cause the skin to atrophe. I can safely get 2,000 from the front and maybe a little more or less from the back (we haven't tried the back yet).

We have extracted 3,800 or so total grafts so I am not quite half way. However, we only have 2,000 more to go on the head to get to Dr. Zontos original calculation of 5,200 head hairs. He recalculated tonight and came up with the exact same calculation so he is on track. My left side is still virgin at this point except he has extracted about 600 from the back left, so he is still on track.

The 80 grafts per centimeter on front look totally natural, and as you know a very thin hairline is a dead giveaway for a hair transplant. I couldn't ask for a better hairline in my opinion. Natural density made totally with singles and a very fine needle by Dr. Bisanga. He's the best at hairlines and did many of Dr. Coles' hairlines that you see. Density drops to 70 then 60 in the front, and will drop to 40 for the crown. Not bad density for a Norwood 7. I have not used up too many on the front. The donor area still has 70% as we only are taking 30%. As you have heard before the natural eye cannot tell the difference until you get to the 50% level, so I'm not even close to that.

Fit4FIT - watch and see. I am not totally screwed as you indicate. I will have a 40 density in the crown. Many transplants will drop to 30, so I'm not complaining. These guys are miracle workers in my opinion. I know I have made the right choice with them. I have total confidence in the work I have received. I've been around a LONG time and I know what is safe and what isn't. I'm working with two of the best doctors in the world (Dr. Zontos and Dr. Bisanga). We are not being careless with this procedure. I have waited and researched 12 long years for this, and I know what I am doing.

One thing I really like is the fact that only the two doctors have touched my head (Drs. Zontos and Bisanga). I'm not being implanted by assistants, and in fact during this whole time not once has an assistant even touched my head. This is a BIG difference from all of the other FUE providers except Dr. Woods/Campbell. I wouldn't take a chance on a good doctor having new assistant that you get stuck with. It's just not worth the risk.

Dean - what do you mean I'm not a viable candidate for a hair transplant? Are you saying I am (was) too bald for a transplant? I would agree if strip was the only option available, but not with FUE and body hair. There is more donor area available with FUE in both the scalp and body. I will have enough donor hair to cover my crown with a 40 density my friend! This give hope to a lot of Norwood 7s that may not have had hope in the past. With strip it would not be possible to do this.

Photomatt - FUE is the ONLY choice I have when you consider the strip would have to be so low on my head and I would need 4 strip surgeries. Can you imagine the tension on that scar if I went that low into where the neck? I'm going to prove to you guys that it is possible with the right technique to do this. Taking 30% of my head donor area with a .75mm punch and the skill of Dr. Zontos will not give me a moth-eaten look. I could have temporary shockloss just like anyone else so I start Minox after 3 days. Dr. Zontos extraction skill is amazing. He's fast and has a very, very low transection rate. He explained to me that is able to follow the hair shaft with the punch by feel. Very amazing.

DJ, I have a lot of body hair and he will take it from all over the chest, abdomin and back. Based on the work he has done we won't have a problem getting the 2,800 or possibly even more :>)

I'm going to bed, and tomorrow my wife and I are touring Athens since she arrived tonight. Sunday through Tuesday I will be on the Greek island of Thira (Santorini) in a home built into the cliff. I will not be available to respond until Wednesday so I hope I have addressed everyone's concerns until then. Thanks, Lee


 03/19/2004 10:09 PM
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stro
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Lee --Looks like excellent work so far. Nothing but positive vibes from me man------Thanks very much for allowing this to be documented and photographed -I think this is a major stepping stone and all our hairs--sorry- HATS are off to you. Good Luck ...

------stro
 03/19/2004 10:22 PM
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Dean
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Best of luck Lee - you are some crazy test pilot, man!

Dean
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