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Topic Title: norwood 3v
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Created On: 12/09/2002 08:55 PM
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 12/09/2002 08:55 PM
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hi guys,
i have a couple of questions??

#1 is it a good ideal to have a transplant if i am a norwood 3v??

#2 could i get near original density??

#3 how many grafts would i need for near original density results??

#4 who is the best between hasson & wond and shapiro??

#5 i read a lot about shock fallout and it seem that it used to happen a lot whit mini and micro grafts,but with follicular transplant it is almost not a problem.

#6 is it possible that the use of propecia and minoxidil 5% eliminate the risk of shock fallout??

 12/09/2002 09:34 PM
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Peter Mac
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I think this has the potential to be a long thread open to a little debate.
But I'll take the first turn:

1. No it is not. This would be a big mistake. Most HT doctors will advise you to try Propecia or Topicals at this stage. Very few HT docs will even consider operating on you at 3v. My opinion is you should be a Norwood V or higher although you could probably have surgery done at Norwood 4 by many doctors. Everyone has a different opinion on this, but the general consensus is that the balder you are the better your HT results will be.

2. First of all you don't need near original density to be happy with the results. You will be very pleased with having a reasonably full head of hair. After being really thin or bald you will be so glad to have your head covered you might not even want the density you had as a teenager. I discovered this with a hair system. I had a "light density" and thought even that was too thick. A full density system would have made me look stupid. That being said, it is unlikely you could achieve full density without using body hair. Hopefully you have plenty of chest/leg hair that can be harvested and relocated to your head.

3. That depends on your degree of loss. If you're a Norwood five or six it would easily be 2500-3000 + grafts. Better start saving all your money because that's going to be pretty pricey to do all this.

4. The only person who could really answer you question is someone who's had work done by both clinics. It would be hard to find that person. Both clinics have their supporters.

5. I don't believe this is purely the use of FUE. A lot of it is the skill of the surgeon and the use of higher gauge needles that are so small they don't shock the system with their intrusion.

6. Anything's possible, but this hasn't been extensively tested for valid proof (at least not that I know of). Shock fallout is reduced by the skill of the surgeon and the quality of his technique and tools.
 12/12/2002 05:23 PM
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Sugar Ray
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Peter Mac

I am a 3V as well and was wondering why you would think you should wait till 5. Is it not better to try and catch it while you are starting to lose so it's less detectable?
 12/12/2002 05:39 PM
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Peter Mac
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That's the theory of every Norwood 3V. Unless you have an expert surgeon perform surgery (and even then) you run the risk of shock fallout.
At 3V you still have a lot of hair! I know you don't think so because all your friends and family have noticed you are starting to thin. However, once you are a Norwood 5 or higher you will look back and think the Norwood 3V was hardly anything Think of it this way. Let's say you are 15 lbs overweight and you hate being "fat." Let's say 4 years later you are 50 lbs overweight. Wouldn't you kill to be ONLY 15 lbs overweight again? Kind of the same thing. A different perspective changes everything.
Starting hair transplants now will only do one thing--bankrupt you! Are you planning to go back for follow up surgery every 2-3 years as more hair falls out from DHT? Are you planning to be in constant surgery/recovery mode for a decade? You will probably deplete your donor area and have limited options in the future. Fortunately, doctors now have the ability to transplant body hair which helps those that have limited donor areas. This has created a virtually unlimited donor supply for someone like me with a forest of chest hair
Maybe you're thinking of getting transplants in the 3V area and then using Propecia, Avodart, etc. to stop future loss. Good idea--the treatment that is. Start using the treatment, but hold off the transplant. A good surgeon will want to make sure your loss has stabilized to get a good idea of donor hair availability and graft placement.
Listen, I know this sucks. All of us know it. I also know you probably wanted your hair replaced yesterday. If you really are just dying to get transplants no matter what anyone says, I'd recommend you see Dr. Bernstein or another honest physician who will tell you now isn't the best time for it. If any HT doctor agrees to operate on you, you should be prepared to be butchered.

Dr. Woods has this on his web site:
"Standard Hair Transplant surgery to balding areas including Norwood 6 & 7 extreme baldness and increased density to thinning areas without 'Shock Fallout'"

However, I think even he would suggest you wait a little bit longer. Start saving your money, stabilize your loss, and be patient.

Edited: 12/12/2002 at 05:47 PM by Hair Loss Help Moderator
 12/12/2002 05:51 PM
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Hey Pete thats kinda funny have you ever listened to Spenser korberens radio show the bald truth.If I remember correctly he heeds the same warnings that you do about getting a ht.But his says that no ethical doctor should operate on you until you are at least a 3v.So the advice is solid but I think he should go and have himself evaluated by one of the good docs.Age and being on propecia is I think a key point.
 12/12/2002 05:56 PM
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Peter Mac
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that's interesting. I've never listened to the show. I think I'm a little more conservative. I know some people say 3v is the minimum where I don't think a doctor should even discuss HT with a patient until they are a Norwood 4 and I wouldn't get it done myself until Norwood 5, but everyone has a slightly different opinion
 12/12/2002 06:48 PM
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In my opinion you should meet with several good doctors. Do not take the amateur advice you get on a site like this. Listen to opinions but get informed. The whole point of FUE in case it has slipped by the attention of some is that it introduces a whole new market to doctors and patients alike. That is the real reason why more and more doctors are trying it now. They know how invasive strip surgery is. They know this leads to shock loss they just are unable to say with who or how much. FUE should at least theoretically limit shock loss since it is minimally invasive. It is also ideal if is properly done for patients who have a limited amount of loss. If the needles are fine enough, planting between existing hairs and in balding receding areas is completely possible. I would certainly go on Propecia though there are no guarantees there and I would talk to only a few doctors about this. Dr Rob Jones in Toronto I know for a fact has done FUE on several norwood 2s. If you understand the principle of the approach you see why this is entirely possible. It also depends on what you think a Norwood 3 really is. Futzyhead claimed to be a Norwood 3 preop and I would have called him a late stage Norwood 5. You really need to see a doctor who is doing FUE or mail him a pic, and I would avoid strip surgeons unless ofcourse your Norwood 3 is more like a 4 or 5 in which case a megasession with a good surgeon will probably replace alot more hairs than are lost. all the best, WWH
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