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Topic Title: Guys..For adequate coverage, how many inches of scalp does 2000
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Created On: 01/04/2003 12:24 PM
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 01/04/2003 12:24 PM
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bald414yrs
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grafts cover adequately........meaning, 1 procedure only and coverage being attained....simply coverage , not, thick density......Thanks
 01/04/2003 12:56 PM
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bmt07
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Though I couldn't find the graphic on the website, the Shapiro Medical Group sent me a nice brouchure that has several graphics that show the different Norwood scales and how much coverage you can get with a certain number of grafts and how many are needed. According to their brouchure you can do the front hairline and the front portion of your scalp (usually) with this many grafts. Of course if you have some hair in that area you may not need that many, but there are many other factors to consider (hair diameter, color, supply etc). I am not a Dr so the best bet would be to get several opinions and see if they differ much. Best of luck to you.
 01/04/2003 03:26 PM
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dodgedabullet
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I have Shapiro's brochure too, and I believe about 25 grafts/cm2 would give adequate coverage for most people. A lot also depends on hair characteristics (color, wave, thickness, etc.).
Since there are about 6.3 cm2 per square inch, I calculate that 2000 FU's would cover 12.7 square inches with adequate density in some people.
 01/04/2003 04:25 PM
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Night Time
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Good job Dodgedabullet. I always recommend to "do your math" especially when you are considering an HT. Numbers are everything in this game.
 01/05/2003 08:55 AM
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arfy
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That number seems way off. A square foot from 2000 grafts? No way. Not unless a Norwood7 has 4 square feet of bald area.

There are charts on this on several websites... DO YOUR HOMEWORK. You are on the INTERNET, the greatest research library in the history of mankind. Why do you need someone else to answer a simple question like this? Do some research!

2000 grafts is about a quarter of what a Norwood7 would need. A Norwood 7 needs 8000 to 10000 grafts, depending on donor density and hair quality, and how much area will be covered. Since the average person only has about 6000 grafts with strip excision, that is why it is common for a Norwood7 to expect a bald crown after a hair transplant.
 01/05/2003 10:45 AM
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Peter Mac
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Arfy,
Dodgedabullet didn't say a square foot could be obtained from 2000 grafts. He said it was 12 square inches. A square foot would be 144 square inches. 12.7 square inches would be roughly be an area 3.5637" by 3.5637" which is an area that 2000 grafts can easily cover.
25 grafts/cm2 is the bare minimum needed for a cosmetically acceptable result (unless you don't mind a slightly thinned look). A non balding person would still have AT LEAST double this density.
I calculate:

1 cm = .3937 inch

1 inch/.3937 = 2.54

Therefore, 25 grafts/cm2 = 2.54 * 2.54 * 25 = 161.29 grafts/inch2
2000 grafts / grafts per sq inch = a 12.4 square inch transplant zone

All that being said, I still think 25 FU per sq cm is still a low level of density. Depending on your hair characteristics, this might not be enough to be cosmetically acceptable to you.

Edited: 01/05/2003 at 01:52 PM by Hair Loss Help Moderator
 01/05/2003 11:07 AM
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Peter Mac
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<< grafts cover adequately........meaning, 1 procedure only and coverage being attained....simply coverage , not, thick density......Thanks >>



Bald414 years, now that we've had some fun debating how much scalp the grafts will cover, let's get back to your question.

The biggest problem here is we're probably not comparing to apples to apples as we discuss this. You want to know if 2000 grafts will solve your hair loss problem. When you say 2000 grafts, do you mean 2000 individual hairs or 2000 FUE grafts which will likely yield 4000 hairs (assuming an average of 2 terminal hairs per each FU graft)? If that's the case my calculations would change to cover more surface area.

What Norwood are you? 4, 5, 6, 7? I can guarantee you will not get the answers you want here. A doctor needs to analyze your hair and your hairloss and determine how many grafts per sq inch YOU NEED. When you say you want "simply coverage" do you mean you want to look thin all over? If you are happy with just a thin look and want nothing more, then 2000 grafts might be good enough for you. It wouldn't be for me though. And all of these grafts per cm2 or square inch are just estimates from studies surgeons did. They may have absolutely no relevance to you.
 01/05/2003 12:22 PM
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dodgedabullet
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Shapiro's brochure states that "an established appearance of hair" can becreated at 20 FU/sq. cm, and an "appearance of normal density" can be achieved with approximately 40 FU/sq. cm.

I thought 25 would give a reasonable appearance. The rest is simple math. There are 2.54x 2.54= 6.45 sq. cm in 1 sq. inch. So 25 FU/sq. cm would require 6.45x25= 161 FU/ sq. inch.

2000 FU's would therefore cover 12.4 sq. in with 25 FU/sq. cm (or about a 3x4 inch area)

To get normal appearing density (40 FU/ sq. cm accordind to Shapiro), 2000 FU's would only cover 7.75 sq. inches.

Edited: 01/05/2003 at 12:25 PM by Hair Loss Help Moderator
 01/05/2003 01:49 PM
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Peter Mac
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okay, I see where your coming from and I agree. An appearance of normal density can be achieved at 40 FU/sq. cm. A normal density range for 2000 grafts would only be an area 2.78 by 2.78 inches...not much considering that's going to cost you $20,000.

Dr. Woods also concurs on these numbers. He e-mailed me that my crown would require at least 3 sessions of 600 grafts each for an acceptable result. My crown is about 8 sq inches and would take 1800-2000 grafts to get an appearance of normal density. Some people have more dense hair than others. However, my hair was never more dense then 40 hair/cm2 before I started losing it.

I will say I'd be thrilled to have 25 hair shafts/cm2 than nothing at all

Edited: 01/05/2003 at 01:59 PM by Hair Loss Help Moderator
 01/05/2003 03:29 PM
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bald414yrs
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Peter Mac and all thanks.....I am advanced 6 and have poor hair characteristics.......I have denisty of 1.8 (approx) My question is not if I will be happy with only 2000 for a full replacement as this is not possible. I have rechanged my "strategy"......I am looking to move 2000 hairs to front portion of scalp and will shorten hair replacement by several inches......I will then wait and move backwards using mostly body hair. Me and Dr. J have played phone tag and he has been very forthcomingwith me. I am going to meet with Farrell tomorrow as he is much closer to me and also has a very good reputation. I probably only have 4000 total grafts to move from my own donor due to lower density...I would be satisfied with thin coverage.....I also posted question here as this is the "internet" and many here would have brochures and "links" to info I was seeking.......as I have learned......I am hoping 2000 grafts will adequately cover first 2.5 to 3 inches of scalp and I will move semiannually more towards back...I will have Dr. Farrell tomorrow and Dr. J soon look at body hair which is plentiful!! All responses are very welcome.....I will be utilizing one large strip to cover entire front and switch to Fue after...I have not 1 hair on head due to unit being worn for 12 or 13 yrs!!!
 01/06/2003 05:45 PM
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Dean
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This question has a different answer for each person.

Welcome to hair economics 101.

To find out in your case, get someone to help you. Make something 1" square (like maybe a piece of wire) and put it on a donor area of your head. Pull all the hair in it through and then count them all. Yes, it will take a while. Once done, take the number of hairs/inch and divide by 2 - that is the density you need to achieve. (50% of original - see Dr. Limmer's excellent paper on this) Use that figure to calculate how much you can cover and you'll get a good ballpark idea. Bear in mind - it takes multiple procedures to achieve 50% of original density - you can't get the FUs packed in that closely in one shot.

Also, lighter hair covers better, darker worse. Coarse hair better, fine worse.

This is why no 2 people have the same answer. Do the math and get your own answer.

Dean
 01/06/2003 09:49 PM
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Peter Mac
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Dean, post a link please to Dr. Limmer's article.
 01/07/2003 07:12 PM
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Dean
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I've only seen it in hardcopy - anyone know where it is online ?

Dean
 01/09/2003 11:33 PM
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Peter Mac
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is this it?

http://www.regrowth.com/hair_loss_treatments/hair_transplants/hair_transplant_news/hair_transplant_density.cfm

Link to Dr. Limmer's article on the Regrowth.com website
 01/10/2003 05:07 PM
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Dean
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I think that's it - but the pictures, a critical part, didn't show up for me - could anyone else see them ?

Dean
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