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Topic Title: is Minoxidil "Sulfate" really 14x stronger than regular minoxidil?
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Created On: 10/28/2015 06:17 AM
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 10/28/2015 06:17 AM
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MaryKay
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Hello,

I am new to this forum. This my first post. Hello everybody : )

I have used (Kirkland) minoxidil topical in the past with not that great of results after about 18 months worth of use. I am a middle aged female that has recently had a face-lift which pulled my hairline back and on top of that my hair is thinning.

Pubmed did a clinical study that claims that the sulfated version works exponentially stronger than regular minoxidil, 14x is what is stated in the study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2230218

Has anyone tried a minoxidil sulfate topical? If not, would anyone have any info or insight or thoughts about minoxidil sulfate?

Surprisingly, I only found one seller selling it on an auction site.

If it is really stronger, shouldn't there be more formulations or different brands available for retail purchase?

I'm tempted to buy some, but would like to get any comments or thoughts about it.

Thanks in advance for any help : )

Edited: 10/28/2015 at 02:45 PM by MaryKay
 10/31/2015 09:40 AM
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SamSkittles
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Hi,

I just ordered a 4 oz bottle of 5% sulfated version of Minoxidil.

I read a lot of good feedback from customers from the online place I bought it.

That Pubmed clinical study is pretty intriguing.

Thanks for the link ( it actually inspired me to make my purchase : )

I plan to give a good month's try and see how it does.

I also was skeptic as to why there are not a whole lot of companies selling this type of formulation when clinical studies have allegedly proved it's exponential power...

We'll see.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

-------------------------
Rami Edwards

Edited: 03/19/2016 at 02:45 PM by SamSkittles
 01/10/2016 11:29 PM
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ohmyhair
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Originally posted by: SamSkittles

Hi,



I just ordered a 4 oz bottle of 5% sulfated version of Minoxidil.



I read a lot of good feedback from customers from the online place I bought it.



That Pubmed clinical study is pretty intriguing.



Thanks for the link ( it actually inspired me to make my purchase : )



I plan to give a good month's try and see how it does.



I also was skeptic as to why there are not a whole lot of companies selling this type of formulation when clinical studies have allegedly proved it's exponential power...



We'll see. I keep everyone updated.



I'm keeping my fingers crossed.



where did you get it ?

-------------------------
I got my Rogain foam on amazon.
I got my avodart on pillsforall.com
 02/13/2016 08:02 AM
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MaryKay
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(sorry i wrote this post in error & I don't know how to delete it)

Edited: 03/29/2016 at 08:56 AM by MaryKay
 02/13/2016 08:33 AM
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MaryKay
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Hello,

It has been about 3 and a half months now of me using minoxidil sulfate, 5%. Even though the suggested dosage is 1 ml in the morning and 1 ml in the night. I think I use closer to 5-6 ml's per application.

The results have been quite dramatic. The new follicles that I am growing seem to be thicker than my usual strands.

It took about 3-4 weeks to notice a considerable difference, but I think it is really working great for me.

Also, at about the 4 week mark, I started mixing in DMSO with my 5% minoxidil sulfate Type-S. I don't know if it is a coincidence or just time that has elapsed while using minoxidil sulfate, but I really started noticing more and more new follicles at the 5 week mark after using the DMSO since the 4 week mark.

I have read that DMSO works as a great carrier to help the scalp absorb minoxidil subdermally.

I'll post another update after about another month of use or so.

If anyone else has any experience with using minoxidil sulfate or mixing DMSO with minoxidil sulfate, your comments or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

MK

Edited: 03/02/2016 at 07:49 AM by MaryKay
 02/22/2016 05:10 PM
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cloud9
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Originally posted by: MaryKay

Hello,



I don't think that I am allowed to post sources on this forum, sorry, maybe it is allowed if you send me a p.m.?





It has been about 3 and a half months now months now of me using minoxidil sulfate, 5%. Even though the suggested dosage is 1 ml in the morning and 1 ml in the night. I think I use closer to 5-6 ml's per application.



The results have been quite dramatic. The new follicles that I am growing seem to be thicker than my usual strands.



It took about 3-4 weeks to notice a considerable difference, but I think it is really working great for me.



Also, at about the 4 week mark, I started mixing in DMSO with my 5% minoxidil sulfate Type-S. I don't know if it is a coincidence or just time that has elapsed while using minoxidil sulfate, but I really started noticing more and more new follicles at the 5 week mark after using the DMSO since the 4 week mark.



I have read that DMSO works as a great carrier to help the scalp absorb minoxidil subdermally.



I'll post another update after about another month of use or so.



If anyone else has any experience with using minoxidil sulfate or mixing DMSO with minoxidil sulfate, your comments or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks.



MK
How much DMSO are you adding to your minox sulfate ?
 02/27/2016 09:36 AM
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MaryKay
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I put a little over 2ml's of DMSO per 50ml's of minoxidil sulfate 5% for the first 2 weeks. Then, I increased it to 18-20% DMSO.

From what I have read online, it takes at least 15% to achieve good absorption. I'm not sure how good the sources were, it was just peoples suggestions that I read from forums.

I also read that regular minoxidil is not soluble in DMSO, but since minoxidil sulfate is soluble in water would that make a difference? Would it make it better?

No precipitate seems to come out when I mix the two, but I never tried mixing DMSO with regular minoxidil.

Has anyone ever mixed regular minoxidil with DMSO? Was there any percipitate?

I'm still getting good results now though with my 20% DMSO blend.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or insight.
 03/19/2016 02:54 PM
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SamSkittles
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I also am interested in adding DMSO to my minoxidil sulfate. I still have 2 bottles left. I ordered an 8 oz. bottle of DMSO, and made about a 15% strength mix. I noticed though, that this new mix made my scalp slightly irritated. I only made 1 bottle's worth of that mix, but I am thinking that even 15% is probably too strong.

Are you getting any type of irritation or tingling at your 20% mix?

-------------------------
Rami Edwards

Edited: 03/19/2016 at 03:07 PM by SamSkittles
 03/29/2016 08:52 AM
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MaryKay
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I have definitely found the addition of DMSO to produce a tingling sensation. I read online that is a typical reaction to DMSO when applied to the skin/scalp.

I would never classify the tingling as a "burning" feeling though. Do you have sensitive skin? I would describe my skin type as being semi-sensitive.

Maybe if you try adding the DMSO at a 5% or less concentration, the tingling/burning feeling will not be as pronounced.

The amount of tingling I get from the addition of the DMSO is comparable to a hair loss product I used years ago that contained graviola extract and menthol. The tingling always made at least feel like "something" is going on, even if it was just the menthol causing it.

Did you get any type of tingling sensation when you used the minoxidil sulfate topical alone?
 04/17/2016 04:46 PM
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SamSkittles
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"Did you get any type of tingling sensation when you used the minoxidil sulfate topical alone?
"



I felt a very very slight tingling, almost not noticeable, when I use the minoxidil sulfate alone.

I ordered more minoxidil sulfate, and this time, I only made a 5% concentration, and I have not noticed any irritation at this level.

I was just wondering about one thing when it comes to applying minoxidil topicals.

I read online that it is best to apply the topical after a shower, because allegedly, the scalp/skin becomes "water-logged" and is less likely to repel any topical and makes it easier for the scalp to accept the solution topically.

I have been doing this before I apply the minox. sulfate topical. Could this maybe be the reason why I might be feeling the slight tingling/slight burning sensation?

I have been definitely been seeing new thick strands in the front of my hairline, and the rest of my hair seems to be getting thicker.

How's your progress been going?

-------------------------
Rami Edwards

Edited: 04/17/2016 at 04:56 PM by SamSkittles
 07/15/2016 08:18 AM
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MaryKay
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I have been also washing my hair very thoroughly with warm/hot water and shampoo to "water-log" my scalp before apply my minoxidil sulfate. It seems to make my scalp "thirsty" and more "spongy".

I hope it isn't doing any harm by me stripping my hair like this from the natural oils ( I have heard in the past that doing this is a big no-no...), but I do it almost every other hair wash, I can really feel a greater rate of absorption, usually by a greater tingling sensation.

I can't advise that anyone else should do this, but I'm giving it a try.

Slow and surely, I am getting new strands that pop up almost an inch an a half below my regular hairline. And, my hair seems to be getting slightly denser. But, it is definitely the new, low below my hairline, follicles that have been fascinating me.

Hope all is going well with your progress.

MK
 07/19/2016 11:59 AM
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mag
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Any thoughts on the below? :


Why is Minoxidil Sulfate a Bad Idea?


Very often I receive questions asking why I do not recommend minoxidil sulfate in a hair regrowth product. Perhaps they've read somewhere minoxidil sulfate works better than minoxidil.

Here I explain why I do not recommend minoxidil sulfate. The structure of real minoxidil sulfate is shown in the Figure below. It is the active metabolite that stimulates hair follicles. Minoxidil applied to the scalp is automatically converted into minoxidil sulfate by sulfotransferase in the scalp (see article 1 below). Yeah, you got it. First of all, it is not necessary because minoxidil will be converted to minoxidil sulfate by the enzymes in your body. Not only is it unnecessary to use minoxidil sulfate, but it is also impractical to include minoxidil sulfate into a solution, because minoxidil sulfate is unstable. It is hydrolyzed back into minoxidil in a few days (See article 2).

Furthermore, the price of minoxidil sulfate is so prohibitively expensive that nobody can afford to add minoxidil sulfate to hair regrowth solutions. I am not aware of any supplier with a large enough stock of minoxidil sulfate with which to make a hair regrowth product. There are some suppliers that offer only in milligrams quantity. The price is about 100 US dollars per 5 milligrams. In a 60 ml hair growth solution with12% minoxidil sulfate, it has 7.2grams of minoxidil sulfate, which will cost more than 100,000 US dollars to procure the minoxidil sulfate for one bottle (one month supply). Clearly no one would put that much minoxidil sulfate in the solution. So what happens? The answer is that the manufacturers of hair growth products who they say they have minoxidil sulfate in their products, either never check the raw material they procure, or they just want to fool customers.

Let me show you what I mean. I bought some minoxidil sulfate a few years back for research purpose. The price was surprisingly lower than minoxidil. It was hard to believe the price was so low given that the synthesis of the minoxidil sulfate is a lot more complicated than minoxidil. Therefore I decided to send the sample to a chemical lab to test the material. The results showed the material had two molecules in it: (1) minoxidil and (2) sulfuric acid, shown as in main image of this blog. To make the "minoxidil sulfate" in the main image of this blog is quite easy. You can get it by simply mixing minoxidil with sulfuric acid. But the product is not real minoxidil sulfate. It is simply a mixture of minoxidil and sulfuric acid. These two molecules are not covalently bonded together. This is different from the real minoxidil sulfate, in which minoxidil is covalently bonded with sulfuric acid to make one single molecule.

Using the fake "minoxidil sulfate" shown in the main image in a hair growth product will only make the product less effective than minoxidil. Why? First of all, there is less minoxidil in the product. Let's say you add 5 grams of the "minoxidil sulfate" to your product, you actually only have 3.2 grams of minoxidil in it. In addition, sulfuric acid is a strong acid, which will protonize minoxidil and make it positively charged. It is well known that skin absorbs lipid or non-charged molecules much more effectively than charged molecules. That means, the presence of sulfuric acid in the product made of "minoxidil sulfate" as shown in Figure 2 will only slow down the absorption.

In summary, a product with minoxidil sulfate does not work any better than minoxidil. If there is any difference, it probably will work less effectively than minoxidil. Minoxidil sulfate is purely a marketing gimmick.
 07/19/2016 12:00 PM
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mag
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I also note that the above posters only have a couple of posts and appear to be promoting a certain product.
 07/19/2016 02:56 PM
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MaryKay
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Interesting views on minoxidil sulfate. I just happened to notice some perhaps inaccuracies.

You said: "Furthermore, the price of minoxidil sulfate is so prohibitively expensive that nobody can afford to add minoxidil sulfate to hair regrowth solutions. I am not aware of any supplier with a large enough stock of minoxidil sulfate with which to make a hair regrowth product. There are some suppliers that offer only in milligrams quantity. The price is about 100 US dollars per 5 milligrams. In a 60 ml hair growth solution with12% minoxidil sulfate, it has 7.2grams of minoxidil sulfate, which will cost more than 100,000 US dollars to procure the minoxidil sulfate for one bottle (one month supply)."

After a simple google search, I found a lot of suppliers selling minoxidil sulfate for about on average $250.00 a kilo. The link is fourth link down when searching "minoxidil sulfate kilo"

Do you believe that All those suppliers are selling "fake" minoxidil sulfate? Did you do a search for suppliers of raw materials on google? It is the third link on google when searching for "minoxidil sulfate kilo". It is not hard to find.

You said: "To make the "minoxidil sulfate" in the main image of this blog is quite easy. You can get it by simply mixing minoxidil with sulfuric acid. But the product is not real minoxidil sulfate. It is simply a mixture of minoxidil and sulfuric acid. These two molecules are not covalently bonded together. This is different from the real minoxidil sulfate, in which minoxidil is covalently bonded with sulfuric acid to make one single molecule. "

I have heard of this theory of minoxidil sulfate being just minoxidil mixed with sulfuric acid. If this was true the minoxidil would never dissolve into ordinary water. Did you buy a minoxidil sulfate solution that was water or propylene glycol based? Did you know that regular minoxidil is not soluble in water? Only minoxidil sulfate(bonded) is. It would simply precipitate out of the water. You didn't seem to make any mention of any precipitates.

Can you tell me what lab you sent your sample of minoxidil sulfate to? I would like to send a sample of mine to have it tested as well. Was it expensive?

I just want to make sure that all the results I'm getting from my minoxidil sulfate is not just some "mind over matter" making my brain force new hairs out from some placebo effect, but I doubt it.

Thank you very much for your time and help. It is greatly appreciated : )

MK

Edited: 07/19/2016 at 03:29 PM by MaryKay
 07/19/2016 03:07 PM
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MaryKay
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Hi Mag,

After further searching about your post.

It seems that you just copy/paste the same information "verbatim" from a company that is selling a minoxidil product.

It is the second link down on google when searching "minoxidil sulfate".

I won't say the company's name, but you could have switched the wording up a little bit as to not make it so obvious.

I guess we can let the readers decide for themselves what is what.......

AMAZING : )
 07/19/2016 03:24 PM
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mag
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MaryKay,

I am a very established long-time member of all of the hair boards. You are not. I am also quite sure from your above posts that you have a financial interest in the minoxidil sulfate product you are tying to appear to have no connection to.

I did not change any of the above wording in my original post--it was simply a copy and paste from a website that addresses the issues with minoxidil sulfate that I asked other posters to comment on.

As to your question as to whether all those "suppliers" are selling fake minoxidil sulfate. Yes, I believe that to be very possible. If you go to the websites of legitimate chemical manufacturers, you will see an exorbitant amount to manufacture minoxidil sulfate.
 07/19/2016 03:28 PM
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mag
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I believe you, MaryKay, and Samskittles to be shills. Albeit--more sophisticated shills attempting thoughtful(not the usual sales pitch) dialogue.
 07/19/2016 03:49 PM
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MaryKay
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Hi Mag,

You said: you are a very established long-time member of all of the hair boards, and I am not.

So, that means what you are saying is true, because your a "long time member".

You said: you did not change any of the above wording in your original post--it was simply a copy and paste from a website that addresses the issues with minoxidil sulfate that you asked other posters to comment on.

Or, did you mean to say it is from a website that is selling a product? Because that is what it looks like to me. Am I wrong? Seems like you have a very direct financial interest, albeit if you are a long time forum member or not.

It's very obvious. I mean come on "word for word". You could have easily switched it up a little bit so your shill wasn't so apparent...

By the way, did you wish to disclose what lab you sent your minoxidil sulfate sample to? So I can test the product I purchased.

Thanks Mag.

Have a good day : )

Edited: 07/21/2016 at 01:46 PM by MaryKay
 07/19/2016 04:58 PM
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mag
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Well, well. What absolute shills!!!

I just found this exact above dialogue posted on another hairloss site (baldtruth), between two posters named Zmay1962 and BradWellington.

What a terrible person you must be to cheat people who are suffering.



https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/threads/21903-is-Minoxidil-Sulfate-really-14x-stronger-than-regular-minoxidil
 07/20/2016 04:49 AM
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MaryKay
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My fault.

I never knew there was a limit to the amount of forums I can post in.

I also have a thread at: http://www.hairlossfight.com/f...623e772355e7a1e43e20b

I guess according to the rules, I'm only allowed to post in one singular forum. I forgot to read the rules before posting in multiple forums. My deepest apologies.

There's just not that much info online about minoxidil sulfate, so my husband and I accidentally, not knowing, posted our thoughts in multiple forums....

Question !): Do you think the Pubmed study is a "schill"? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2230218

2): Do you have any studies about a product, that you are obviously trying to sell and claim it's "info only", that are more conclusive then Pubmed?

3): Did you wish to disclose where you had your minoxidil sulfate tested at? I would love to know what lab handled that. I'm dying to test the product I purchased.

Thanks Mag : )
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