Originally posted by: strataeast
it seems that some of the people over at regrowth site are giving up on miconazole. saying thay can see no difference either way. interesting. i always thought it would turn out to be bollocks
Obviously, I'm not the biggest micon advocate but how long could they have possibly been on it? And what did they expect to see? Success with antiandrogens is measured in maintenance over years.
Originally posted by: damien53
Originally posted by: DecadeTwo
I guess if you were able to keep T levels suppressed locally for a good chunk of time (e.g. serum T doesn't just "wash over the area" after one hour) it could even be synergistic to an androgen antagonist, especially if you aren't also on fin.
I hope at least a few of you guys are documenting this with good pics (e.g. please keep the hair length and lighting the same). In know RSR is, but the fact that he was in month 9 (or so) of fin usage confuses matters for me.
Decade, can you explain this post a little bit? Does a combo of Fin and androgen antagonists not work?
I think 5ar inhibitors (e.g. fin) and androgen antagonists (e.g. spiro) work synergistically. What I'm wondering is if CYP450 inhibitors (e.g. micon) work synergistically with either, or do anything at all for that matter.
This isn't my area of expertise, but here's what I was trying to say/ask:
As far as I can tell, the micon could be effective by inhibiting the enzyme (CYP450) that metabolizes T, much like Fin inhibits the enzyme (5ar) which metabolizes DHT. Even if you don't think that T has much of an effect on AGA, we can all agree that less T means less DHT.
But does that matter for a topical?
T is made in the testes and has effects all over the body.
DHT is made locally in tissue (such as hair follicles or the prostate), and really only has an effect locally.
So, if I apply micon to my scalp, will it lower T levels for an hour, only to be "washed out" by serum T; or, will it continue to effectively lower levels of T locally for hours? I don't know the answer to that.
If it's the former, then I have no idea how it could be theoretically useful for AGA.
If it's the latter, than someone who is not inhibiting 5ar with fin could theoretically at least lower the amount of DHT produced locally in the follicles by lowering overall T levels in the scalp area.
I'm just wondering aloud. Since most T is produced in the testes, not metabolized by CYP450, I have my doubts that inhibiting CYP450 in one area (the scalp) will have much of an effect. Maybe micon works through some other mechanism, but now we're flirting with wishful thinking.
In any case, we are just talking about yet another potentially effective antiandrogen. We have a ton of those (e.g. Azalaic Acid), and we even have several proven antiandrogenic treatments. We know these work well to maintain hair.
What we need are growth stims. All we have are minox and SODs (and maybe a few others) that grow hair for a short while and "the end".
If we could find a growth stim that works indefinitely, however slowly, that would make a huge difference.
I think it's too bad that people don't look at the "fads" that consume hair loss forums in this context.
NW < 2 since 1999
The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'evidence'.
--Alan I. Leshner
Correlation does not imply causation.
When you believe in things that you don't understand then you suffer. Superstition ain't the way.
I'm not an MD, and I'm not a hair loss expert.
03:51 PM by