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Topic Title: Super Growth Factors Formulation - whod be in?
Topic Summary: Growth factors that work in humans want in?
Created On: 01/18/2011 11:11 AM
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 01/18/2011 11:11 AM
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samiam
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Alright here is what Im thinking.


Ive been in touch with a few biotech companies and id like to know who else would be interested in a formulation that would contain Potent Hair Growth Factors that work on Humans?

Ideally and if possible it would be 1 single product that would contain all the different factors etc in a stabilised solution.


1.Insulin Like Growth Factor (IGF-1)
2.Basic fibroblast growth factor (bFGF)
3.Keratinocyte growth factor (KGF)
4.Alpha fibroblast growth factor (aFGF)
5.Vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF)
6.Platelet-Derived Growth Factor (PDGF)
7.Hepatocyte Growth Factor (HGF)
8.Macrophage Stimulating Protein (MSP)-possibly
9.Follistatin



**10. If possible (though unlikely due to high costings being quoted so far ) Human parathyroid antagonist peptide specifically PTH (7 - 34)

**11. Lower levels of Epidermal growth factor (EGF) could be added for those with thinning scalps, wanting better skin, more collagen etc or offered separately.



This would take a lot of work to negotiate and settle on and Id like to help others as well as myself.
It would be potent human grade factors not plant extracts etc.
Only the best and it would have high concentrations with maximum potency to induce maximum results.

Application at minimum would be a topical w/dermaroller though really best with microinjections.



If you guys have questions etc open another thread for answers. This will work and you would be amazed at how well it works combined with your current regiments.


Just want a show of hands for now so that I can negotiate something if anything. NOTHING LIKE IT AT ALL ON THE MARKET. This would be cutting edge.

Edited: 08/16/2012 at 08:42 AM by samiam
 01/18/2011 11:20 AM
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NegativeNorwood
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Well yes I would be interested. Cost and safety are also a factor.
 01/18/2011 08:15 PM
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UndeniablyBalding
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I'm interested.

What is your initial feeling on cost and how easy would this be to use? Are we talking injections to the scalp? Also, how stable would this be? Would we have to mix the solution each time it is applied?
 01/18/2011 08:25 PM
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Maxster
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I think a lot of us would be interested if you could get a reasonable cost, reasonable safety, as well as documentation to back up why it would work.

A lot of people paid $450-500 for a three or four month supply of RU58841, and some have paid up to 800$ for other experimentals, so if you can get it somewhere in that range, i think you will have a lot of interest... but again, for people to bite you would have to have VERY solid evidence of possibility of results and again, safety.

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Maxster
 01/19/2011 08:14 AM
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chin_up
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I've not heard of these "growth factors" before on the boards- how come they haven't been discussed much/at all?
Is there any evidence of them working in people with MPB?
 01/19/2011 11:02 AM
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majorsixth
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Originally posted by: Maxster

I think a lot of us would be interested if you could get a reasonable cost, reasonable safety, as well as documentation to back up why it would work.



A lot of people paid $450-500 for a three or four month supply of RU58841, and some have paid up to 800$ for other experimentals, so if you can get it somewhere in that range, i think you will have a lot of interest... but again, for people to bite you would have to have VERY solid evidence of possibility of results and again, safety.



Get real ! Those drugs that he has mentioned are very expensive, not to mention hard to obtain.. and even if they are obtained I can see a coctail of the above list costing way more them $ 500 a month let alone 3 month..
 01/19/2011 12:29 PM
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samiam
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Couple of points to address based on the replies made so far:

1. This is not some hobo quack pseudo science eg adipose stem cell lol. Its the cutting edge of what has been discovered and proven to induce hair growth and regrowth using the actual growth factors involved in the process.


2. Inhibiting DHT or blocking Androgen Receptors etc is all well and great and definitely advisable but what about the DP growth factors? What about the reduced vascular network and thicker epidermal matrix that was supporting the hair follicles (especially temporal). There are a lot of growth factors involved and every single one listed is implicated and proven to help and or induce growth(not to mention that some are actually produced by your hair).


3. Im not going to post a hundred articles or links to show the efficacy and benefit of each peptide though suffice to say each one is thoroughly researched.


4. This would not be some piss poor money making scheme with only tiny tiny amount of a single factor in a shampoo lol. It would be strong and potent stuff that would work.


5. Certain molecules are relatively big hence why I had stated youd atleast want to try a dermaroller if wanting purely topical route. Though IMO microinjections would be best.


6. Good news so far is im in touch with some companies and discussing matters. I could get the vast majority of the growth factors separately though that may cost more and would be less convenient because one would need to formulate/mix things themselves.


7. PTH continues to be a nuisance as its extremely limited and therefore extremely expensive. still searching though......


Also checking to see whether the end product could be stabilised enough to last longer than the usual 7 days post reconstitution.


This would not be needed on a daily basis but more on a treatment basis. Cost is an obvious factor but right now im trying to see who can do it, then what is their quality like, then can it be stabilised or formulated into a single product. Am Aiming to keep cost as low as possible eg ~$320 or less per vial




I had used growth factors, hgh, igf etc before with full regrowth.
 01/19/2011 12:55 PM
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Rogar6
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I'm interested.
 01/19/2011 03:07 PM
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paisano
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I'm very interested. I too have used hgh in the past, although not for my hair. It is extremely expensive and extremely potent. I stopped using it because I
didn't want to be dead in 5 years.

-------------------------
.5 avodart e.d. 2-26-10
1 mg finpecia e.d. 12-1-12
Nizoral 3X a week
Prox-N 1-18-2011 (stopped 1-15-12)
Minoxidil 12-12-09
Spiro (topical) 9-4-10

Revita 4X a week
Saw palmetto extract
Fish Oil
Super Hair Energizer 2X Daily.

 01/19/2011 03:59 PM
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Squall243
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That dose will still kill ya in 3.

-------------------------
5% Spectral UHP minoxidil x2 daily- No more!
Revita replacing normal shampoo (about 3-4 times a week) Only treatment, probably doesnt grow hair or slow down loss but it doesnt (well maybe) do any further damage that would occur with SLS and it makes the hair look abit thicker
 01/19/2011 08:31 PM
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samiam
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I am just updating this as I go along and hopefully we will get something awesome out of it.


1 Major good news is I finally got a "reasonably" cheapish price for PTH(7-34). Still expensive as hell but way cheaper ie relatively speaking "affordable" .

 01/19/2011 08:40 PM
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samiam
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Originally posted by: paisano

I'm very interested. I too have used hgh in the past, although not for my hair. It is extremely expensive and extremely potent. I stopped using it because I

didn't want to be dead in 5 years.



Not really that expensive though that depends on how much it was costing you in the first place. $1/IU is not that much.....


You wouldnt be dead or ruin your health or any of the other BS so long as you dont abuse it.


However heres something you may not have known. You can illicit the same increases as though on 4-6iu of it a day(feeling wise), endogenously, cheaper and without side effects.
What do you do?
Use GHRP-6 + CJC-1295 (NON DAC version for men).

Depending on dosage and frequency you could easily increase your endogenous HGH levels by a factor of 10+ and your IGF levels by a factor of 3+ with no suppression or negative feedback issues and following your normal male pattern (male pattern is pulses whereas females are more like a bleed/leak/trickle).
 01/19/2011 08:41 PM
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samiam
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Originally posted by: Squall243

That dose will still kill ya in 3.


???

What dose?
 01/19/2011 09:26 PM
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paisano
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I used hhgh with 9c, 15c, and 30c injected. It gave me real bad joint pain. Couldn't endure it.
4iu's/day - 5 days on/ 1 off. It kicked ass but numbness and joint pained was the kicker.
A lot of guys don't see any sides though.

-------------------------
.5 avodart e.d. 2-26-10
1 mg finpecia e.d. 12-1-12
Nizoral 3X a week
Prox-N 1-18-2011 (stopped 1-15-12)
Minoxidil 12-12-09
Spiro (topical) 9-4-10

Revita 4X a week
Saw palmetto extract
Fish Oil
Super Hair Energizer 2X Daily.

 01/20/2011 12:03 AM
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samiam
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paisano:

9c, 15c, 30c? Im hoping your talking of needle gauges! lol


Dont tell me you hit it straight away with 4ius / day? did you split your doses between morning and afternoon?
All you would have needed to do is reduce the dosage, assuming the HGH was high quality powder...
Which brand etc were you using?

Also note that the powder forms inevitably give you more sides which most people attribute to it working in comparison to the AQ version due to a much higher antibody response.
AQ formulation is not lypholised and has a significantly lower response which often people confuse it with not working lol.


Should give my suggestion a shot then, if youd like I know I certainly well
 01/20/2011 10:28 AM
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UndeniablyBalding
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Samiam,

Don't want to hijack your thread here but you seem pretty experienced with growth factors so I wanted to get your take on a Yahoo! article that I just noticed. It is regarding velvet deer antlers (which I had never heard of).

Any potential positive effect on hair by taking this internally? If it comes out that Tom Brady is taking this stuff I may wind up OD'ing on it! HAHA!

Yahoo! Article



Edited: 01/20/2011 at 10:51 AM by UndeniablyBalding
 01/20/2011 12:34 PM
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samiam
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UndeniablyBalding:

Let me start by stating following is not aimed at you personally but rather just aimed at the stupidity of it all . Also appreciate the appreciation I spend a lot of time with growth factors, peptides, hormones, performance enhancers etc with lots of medical textbooks too lol


Figuratively speaking live next door to this whole antler bs.

Why stop with velvet deer antler?

Lets amp it up! Chuck in a rhino's horn, an elephant's testicles, a Siberian tiger's penis, a pinch of cobra blood and a dash of baboon brain marinated in ostrich urine and let the positive effects BLOW your mind



This BS had started a while ago and if I recall correctly some of the early research was back in the 70s regarding the remarkable regeneration abilities of deers to regrow their antlers.
Decades later ~2000 (from memory) 1 inconsistent and inconclusive study later (surprise surprise conducted by NZ) and idiots had jumped on the band wagon!

A couple of studies later proved no real effects or benefits.


Infact the purported benefit thats often ascribed to it by idiots is that its growth hormone and IGF1.
Zoological studies though have shown that the regenerative properties MAY be attributable to IGF 1 and 2 levels but often only till 2 years of age. After that the remarkable growth is a result of a whole complex of interacting growth factors and hormones that provides it with the ability to rapidly regrow its antlers with testosterone playing a key role too (hence buck-male deer).

These idiots dont know even the basics of growth factors or hormones.
eg
1.even if one were to assume super high levels of IGF1 in the particular velvet deer antler product received its not exactly bio compatible!
2.Growth hormone and to a slightly less degree IGF1 are very susceptible to degradation for numerous reasons including bacteria, temperatures, sunlight, shaking etc etc etc etc.
3.Most of these types of products come in either spray form or oral supplement(powder/caps). Its biologically near impossible for growth hormone or IGF1 to survive the digestive process. These are very sensitive hormones/factors we are talking about.
4.The length of time these products have been setting around and collecting dust. (eg growth hormone dissolved in sterile water is only good for about 20ish hours and thats refrigerated! likewise refrigerated IGF1 would last barely a couple of weeks unless acetic acid or hcl was used)
5. Note a big marketing scam/ploy that is used by companies selling it is stating studies in their benefit. eg IGF1 does this or IGF1 extracted from deer helps deers grow or such and such study proved this or that in chickens etc so whats the ploy? Ofcourse those factors do those things when pure and potent and when its ACTUALLY BIOAVAILABLE and directly introduced (either into the animal or petridish).


So could it provide any benefit whatsoever? Perhaps in a nutritional sense (calcium, collagen, etc) but certainly not due to GH or IGF1 etc.



Whereas take CJC1295 as an example. This is medically and scientifically proven to increase HGH upto 10X and IGF1 upto 3X ON ITS OWN(dose dependant and cant overdose as oversaturation really occurs at 150mcg). (combined with GHRP6 becomes more potent and synergistic)
 01/20/2011 01:09 PM
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Iggy Pop
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would CJC1295 and/or GHRP6 heal niggling sports injuries?
Also are they legal to buy and use
Are they injections or pills/creams?
 01/20/2011 01:28 PM
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NegativeNorwood
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Samian regarding Microinjections please explain how to do that. I've not injected anything in my scalp yet (been tempted) but I don't know the protocol. I think its important we all know how to do this safely, any guides or resources?
 01/20/2011 01:57 PM
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samiam
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iggypop:

depends. as stated your hgh and igf1 would be much higher which leads to massively enhanced collagen formation, tissue repair, protein synthesis etc. All benefits to healing an injury etc... Injury to injury is different and the root cause is also different.

ive already stated they would be injections and legality is an issue that is country specific eg hgh, steroids etc for personal use in UK is legal (inc importing small personal quantities) though banned in USA.

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