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Topic Title: Interesting Find on DIM
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Created On: 02/04/2008 01:24 PM
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 02/04/2008 01:24 PM
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William the Bloody
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http://www.morphollica.com/editors_corner/hairloss_editorial20.php

Read about this more than once, but I'm not sold yet.

I like the effect of binding to the same androgen receptors as DHT. Would be wonderful if we could effectively make a topical out of this that actually worked.

Edited: 02/04/2008 at 01:26 PM by William the Bloody
 02/04/2008 01:32 PM
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zanzi
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Interesting, I just got my fist shipment of DIM 200 mg this weekend.

I didn't order it as a DHT blocker though, I'm taking it for the benefits of estradiol metabolism it provides. Probably will take a couple weeks to feel any benefit, but I've only heard good things about DIM as a supplement.

 02/04/2008 04:15 PM
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Photomatt
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Don't get too excited about DIM. I've been taking 200mg a day for 2 years and it hasn't done anything to help my hair. I do believe it is effective at metabolizing estrogen though.
 02/04/2008 04:16 PM
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train
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is dim something you can buy at a vitiman store? if not, where can i find it?
 02/04/2008 04:21 PM
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IWantToKeepMyHair
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I'm gonna go buy me some broccoli. At the very least, I lower my chance of prostate cancer.
 02/04/2008 04:31 PM
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zanzi
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I heard you would have to eat 3 pounds of broccoli a day to get the same effect as 200mg of DIM a day. I still eat broccoli any chance I get though, one of the best vegetables around, but you should steam in or eat it raw even to maximize it's nutritional value.

DIM is really difficult to find in a vitamin store for a reasonable price, it's normally in the PMS or Menopause section.

I ordered mine from the below web-site, $11.95 for a 2 month supply plus S/H. They even sent me free book of my choice, I chose "Testosterone is your Friend" and all the books are availabe in PDF from the site. It arrived exactly one week from when I ordered it and I'm in Canada.

It can turn your urine a brownish yellow if you don't drink enough water, but it's harmless.

Once again, I don't use it as a DHT blocker, I don't think there is enough science behind that, but it is a really effective estradiol (Bad Estrogen) metabolizer, which can improve libido, energy and might work well for those who suffer mild sides from Finasteride. It also improves fat metabolism in combination with exercise.

http://youngagain.com/
 02/04/2008 06:03 PM
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pimpinhair
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Quote

Originally posted by: Photomatt
Don't get too excited about DIM. I've been taking 200mg a day for 2 years and it hasn't done anything to help my hair. I do believe it is effective at metabolizing estrogen though.


Hey photomatt,

Have you got estradiol level checked ever since you started taking DIM ?
 02/04/2008 07:10 PM
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4HeadFromHell
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Apparently DIM is not very bioavailable. There are some that have ingredients that increase absorption.
 02/05/2008 03:04 AM
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Photomatt
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I haven't had my estradiol levels tested since starting. I did have them checked before starting and they were sky high. My evidence is anecdotal in that I noticed almost immediately upon starting DIM that my body fat percentage dropped, especially around my gut. I also noticed increases in strength due to elevated Test. I'm 100% certain it does it's job on estradiol to some degree, not like armidex and other stronger meds.....but this is natural.
 02/05/2008 06:36 AM
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William the Bloody
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Quote

Originally posted by: 4HeadFromHell
Apparently DIM is not very bioavailable. There are some that have ingredients that increase absorption.


It's precursor IC3 is the one that isn't very bioavailable, not DIM itself.
 02/05/2008 06:42 AM
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William the Bloody
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Quote

Originally posted by: Photomatt
I haven't had my estradiol levels tested since starting. I did have them checked before starting and they were sky high. My evidence is anecdotal in that I noticed almost immediately upon starting DIM that my body fat percentage dropped, especially around my gut. I also noticed increases in strength due to elevated Test. I'm 100% certain it does it's job on estradiol to some degree, not like armidex and other stronger meds.....but this is natural.


Five days on and I had stiff joints already at the recommended dosage, so it is comparable to arimidex. The box says take 2 twice a day for a male, but I can't do that. I tried 1 twice a day and only 1 a day already. I think my magic number is 1 pill every other day. I don't feel elevated androgens like when I took AIFM or Arimidex (itchy skin, blurry eyes, more sweat, etc.) though. This is just self-observation though.
 02/05/2008 08:17 AM
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Peter Mac
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Quote

Originally posted by: Photomatt
Don't get too excited about DIM. I've been taking 200mg a day for 2 years and it hasn't done anything to help my hair. I do believe it is effective at metabolizing estrogen though.
I've been using Propecia, Minoxidil, and Keto and I've had minor regrowth but not much. If you are a Norwood 5V like me all the supplements in the world may only do one thing--stop your hair loss. I think once someone reaches a Norwood 4-5 pattern or beyond the goal should be to stop the hair loss and nothing else with meds. The only way to recover the hair is with a transplant at that point (or until something new comes along five years from now).

 02/05/2008 08:20 AM
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Peter Mac
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Quote

Originally posted by: William the Bloody
http://www.morphollica.com/editors_corner/hairloss_editorial20.php
I">http://www.morphollica.com/editors_corner/hairloss_editorial20.php">http://www.morphollica.com/editors_corner/hairloss_editorial20.php[/q like this article, but I agree with zanzi. Most of us will never eat enough broccoli to get enough I3C to have a major effect on hair. Try eating 3 lbs of broccoli every day for only one week. I don't think you'll make it.
 02/05/2008 02:28 PM
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4HeadFromHell
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IC3 is unstable in supplement form and DIM alone is NOT very bioavailable:

"DIM, however, does not absorb well in the body...The good news is that a research physician was able to make DIM absorbable, while retaining its stability in a supplement form. This was done naturally. It resulted in the production of what scientists call "bioavailable" DIM. This is simply DIM made into a form that the body can use. Since this form is all natural, it retains it safety while ensuring its clinical effectiveness."

http://www.drdaenell.com/hormonebalance.htm


Edited: 02/05/2008 at 02:29 PM by 4HeadFromHell
 02/13/2008 07:42 AM
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pimpinhair
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 02/13/2008 08:16 AM
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William the Bloody
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You guys are right about that. I apologize for the mixup.

I was looking at my particular DIM brand that I use and it stated it was highly absorbable. But now I see it is because they added bioperene to enhance it.

Edited: 02/13/2008 at 08:18 AM by William the Bloody
 02/13/2008 08:24 AM
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pimpinhair
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I'm using Young Again's Dim at the moment but i will switch to nature's way DIM-plus later on. From what i've read so far, the DIM in Nature's way is formulated in a much more absorb-able form and it was also the DIM that was used in the study i posted above.

"Despite the initial efficacy of androgen deprivation therapy, most patients with advanced prostate cancer eventually progress to hormone-refractory prostate cancer, for which there is no curative therapy. Previous studies from our laboratory and others have shown the antiproliferative and proapoptotic effects of 3,3'-diindolylmethane (DIM) in prostate cancer cells. However, the molecular mechanism of action of DIM has not been investigated in androgen receptor (AR)–positive hormone-responsive and -nonresponsive prostate cancer cells. Therefore, we investigated the effects of B-DIM, a formulated DIM with greater bioavailability, on AR, Akt, and nuclear factor {kappa}B (NF-{kappa}B) signaling in hormone-sensitive LNCaP (AR+) and hormone-insensitive C4-2B (AR+) prostate cancer cells. We found that B-DIM significantly inhibited cell proliferation and induced apoptosis in both cell lines"

Edited: 02/13/2008 at 08:30 AM by pimpinhair
 02/13/2008 09:04 AM
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DownHill
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Quote

Originally posted by: pimpinhair
I'm using Young Again's Dim at the moment but i will switch to nature's way DIM-plus later on. From what i've read so far, the DIM in Nature's way is formulated in a much more absorb-able form and it was also the DIM that was used in the study i posted above.



"Despite the initial efficacy of androgen deprivation therapy, most patients with advanced prostate cancer eventually progress to hormone-refractory prostate cancer, for which there is no curative therapy. Previous studies from our laboratory and others have shown the antiproliferative and proapoptotic effects of 3,3'-diindolylmethane (DIM) in prostate cancer cells. However, the molecular mechanism of action of DIM has not been investigated in androgen receptor (AR)–positive hormone-responsive and -nonresponsive prostate cancer cells. Therefore, we investigated the effects of B-DIM, a formulated DIM with greater bioavailability, on AR, Akt, and nuclear factor {kappa}B (NF-{kappa}B) signaling in hormone-sensitive LNCaP (AR+) and hormone-insensitive C4-2B (AR+) prostate cancer cells. We found that B-DIM significantly inhibited cell proliferation and induced apoptosis in both cell lines"




Are you seeing any beneifts from the youngagain one? i just ordered a bottle from their website. is that not a good one?
 02/13/2008 09:20 AM
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pimpinhair
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IT's not that it's not good but the Dim-plus is BETTER. i knew about DIM-plus before but i didn't even consider it because of the high price. However i just found this seller on ebay that's selling this stuff at a much more reasonable price. 120 caps for 30 bucks. Not bad eh ?

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