Accutane may result in hypervitaminosis A, which causes hair loss.

But here's why hair loss happens - Hypervitaminosis A causes low levels of biotinidase. Biotinidase is an enzyme that regulates biotin. Biotinidase deficiency means biotin deficiency.

An old laboratory study showed that rats fed with low biotin levels lost all their hair, but when once taking high doses of biotin their hair restored.

According to http://www.emedicine.com/PED/topic239.htm : "Although they may be severe, the rash and alopecia typically respond rapidly to biotin administration over days to months."

So I suggest any accutane victim to take biotin suplementation. If possible more than once a day (if possible timed-release) because it's not stored in the body since it's water soluble and goes away with urine and sweat. Also take a good B Complex as biotin interact with these vitamins. Up to 5mg (=5.000 mcg) daily should be OK, since there are pills with that much biotin content. Commom vitamin supplements only offer a very small amount of biotin, which wouldn't be enough.

I hope it helps anyone.

Leandro

Edited: 02/01/2004 at 05:49 PM by Leandro

That's great. Thanks Leandro.

In france Biotin has been used to "treat" hairloss for maybe 30 years. It is recommended to treat DIFFUSE thinning especially...
Being hit by regular MPB, not diffuse, I still decided to jump on the boat just to give it a try. So I started taking Biotin (vitamin H) + Bepanthene (the vitamin B complex you're talking about which in my case is vitamin B5) 3 times a day, which makes 3x5mg=15mg of Biotin + the 3 vitamin B pills that go hand in hand with the Biotin pills.

Results: it is no miracle treatment, but after propecia to me it has been the only internal addition that showed results...
I also take MSM and arginine and *believe* they're doing something like increase my hair's growth speed... but I can't tell for sure or NOTICE it. However I can claim officially that I saw results from using Biotin + vitamin B5 in the following days/weeks taking it.
My vellus ^dying hairs were stuck at some lenght and wouldn't grow anymore from there (Minox wasn't doing anything yup...), after taking Biotin + Bepanthene at such high doses like it is ADVISED here in france under medical control........ (this is VERY important or at least I believe it coz they suggest you really have to stick with 15mg if you can. and not less... because at worse "excess of vitamins have no side effects and will be eliminated by your body if they are in too great quantity") well well well, only after using Biotin + vB and not MSM or anything else, well my vellus hairs grew more than usual and reach a few millimeters more...conclusion: nothing drastic but VISIBLE improvement really.... which is really good
Now vellus hairs are longer than they've ever been and that I thought treatments could pull them to. But don't get me wrong, that increasing in lenght will stop. At least it did for me but once again I suffer from regular MPB..........
Anyway I'm really happy from Biotin.

If I was a diffuse thinner I would give it a try......... it worked for me to some extent but everything that works a little is important... I have no data concerning diffuse thinners using Biotin, but since here it is specified as a treatment that works for diffuse thinners, and worked for me while I'm not.. well yeah I'd give it a try.... you never know.

Oh Besides now I'm only taking 10mg a day because it is less hassle for my regimen BUT also less expensive...
But it is just because I know I achieved the maximum lenght for my vellus hairs that I could get from Biotin...

Here you go

Damn.. that's alot of biotin.. 15mg? Where can you get such huge doses? they only come in mcg as far as i know..

Yeah 15 mg is pretty high.....do you empty a bottle all at once ?

So is it suggested that accutane causes a biotin defficiency that is permanent even after finishing the drug? or will biotin only help accutane hair loss sufferers who lose their hair during the actual course of the drug?

in france, pill boxes are manufactured and sold to be taken at such a high doses a day, not in low doses like in the states

3x 5mg pills a day and it costs me 20$ for 20 days (Biotin + Bepanthene that is)
now $20 for 30 days since I reduced to 10mg a day

Can your body even use 15 mg of Biotin a day? That is a massive dose. I take a supplement, and there is biotin in my muti-vitamin. I can't imagine needing anymore then that.

There's a study flaoting around which concludes 3mg a day of biotin improved the hair quality of mpb sufferers. Not regrowth as such, but it helped improve texture and hair quality leading to improvements in appearence. My multi-cit has only 0.15mg, i think thats a bit low, perhaps 1mg a day would be beneficial, anything more may be a waste.

Edited: 01/31/2004 at 10:09 AM by Lizzad

Start taking huge amounts of one vitamin and you find that your body then needs more of other vitamins to compensate and you end up in a never ending spiral.

There was study done using 2.5mg (I think) which showed noticable hair improvments - IMO you don't need to take much more than that.

Actually, in that study you're talking about it states 2.5mg showed results as in: "obvious improvement of HAIRLOSS" (for 65% of all cases approximately) and then improvements on hair texture/quality for about 70% of their guinea pigs....ADDITIONNALY (...)
Just because they have led a study with 2.5mg biotin doesn't mean it is the recommended dose. period (that's what you call a study? i.e. verify something...) If I was to test a substance, I would start at a low dose, in order to check the benefits as opposed to the risks and side effects.
They weren't even analysing the effects of an already marketed drug/medicine. To sum it up, that study just revealed the efficience of biotin on hair patterns. I assume?

Switzerland (the country in which that study was carried out in 1992.) is borderline to France, I'm citizen of both.
We use Biotin to fight hairloss, not even friggin hair texture. Personally I just don't give a damn about hair texture. If I'm to spend time in front of a mirror while fighting hairloss, it's at best to verify I have hair that grows and that can be painfull allready ! If I'd pay attention and spend time on hair texture sorry but I think I'd go nuts. But that's just me.
I saw results (with my eyes) on hair growth, at high doses, you see improvement in quality of hair, at low doses. Study mentions Biotin is effective in all aspects, sometimes NOT for everyone... (fact: at 2.5mg it was doing peanuts for 30% of the guinea pigs) It might be you. those 30% might you. Pure logic

I conclude: that if you see improvements only in hair quality at 2.5mg, you could see growth at more. lol? mathematics...
It then becomes a matter of choice in terms of goals for any individuals.


Exercise:
* Biotin works potentially for anybody, in 2 fields: growth and texture, it is proven. However, main goal remains fighting hairLOSS
* Each individuals are unique in their response to treatments.
* I can attest I experienced surely a tad bit of growth.
* In europe Biotin is used to treat hairloss, since quite forever - few decades. (particular note, at high doses, because laboratories market it and sell it this way. we can't change it) It must work. (? or seems to sell...... heh)
* It's easy to live in another area of the world and being pessimistic about Biotin when apparently it's never been used to treat hairloss on its own. to a point you can only find Biotin in mmmmcg quantities sorry
* That Switzerland study should not be misunderstood.

* Last but not least, I might be a good or a bad responder.

Solution: your very own lol


Natural vitamins excess or even disorders, donno well I can't tell than they will be more potentially dangerous that all the chemistry we're eating out each day or putting on our heads.
And I want to trust that's my only opinion on the post :l

ttyl I won't reply any further in that thread coz I have no time to lose and gf is arriving tomorrow for 3 weeks.

Fight for your rights dudes *heads up*

Quote

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Originally posted by: oorphee_02
I conclude: that if you see improvements only in hair quality at 2.5mg, you could see growth at more. lol? mathematics...

It then becomes a matter of choice in terms of goals for any individuals.

---

Thats actually a VERY reckless attitude to take. Just because its a 'vitamin' don't think for one moment that its harmless and you could take any amount.

Everything you put in your body can cause an imbalance if you take too much, for instance, too much biotin can cause insulin problems, the need for more Vitamin C and B6 and increased blood sugar which then leads to other health problems etc etc.

You have to look at the bigger picture all the time.

Sensible moderation.

I respect your moderation man!!! I can't even debate... you be the wisest! I'm not kidding

I agree it's a touchy-feely point
I just know I don't see results very often... so for now I will keep the formula like it is!! there's no way about it
I don't see fighting hairloss has beeing riskless, globally..
worse, I can't even tell you I'll continue using Biotin at such dose or forever... for example Im starting the brew ==> if it works and I believe its the DMSO, I might reconsider my regimen
what I know is that if *I* have to drop internals, I might drop arginine in the first place.. or MSM (3g) but I donno If I'll drop anything.... before feeling all safe and warm... we have to deal with difficult decisions all the time right )

however I know that even if oz brew works, I'll keep AT THE VERY least 5mg of biotin... coz I saw it worked for *me* and I can't say I saw other internals work besides finasteride.... (for the crown area for me...) however if I ever get back the head of hair of a grizzli, then I'll stop biotin for sure.. coz I'm concerned with hairloss, but huge regimens to follow are not funny either

so my decision is to keep what works for now. if I wouldnt do that I might as well stop everything


by the way I achieved airline pilot studies, and I had very precise blood analyses very often to perform, just because it's the rule in the job and they make sure you're in perfect shape physically.
now I'm about to switch to the air traffic controller world, and if I succeed the selection stages and although if I don't, I will very frequently pass through analysis again, so if biotin fucks with me, I could be suppose to know it, they will point out that something is wrong, no doubt about it
so for now and I cannot declare it's a good thing, I feel a bit "out of touch :l pff


I'm just trying to share my experience :> don't let me be misunderstood...

and once again I respect your criticism!

Quote

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Originally posted by: oorphee_02
and once again I respect your criticism!

---

just don't want any of you guys harming yourselves.

Well, Biotin is water soluble so therefore it will get flused out of your system and not stored. However, it is possible that could cause an imbalance in other b vitamins. Maybe one should consider taking a B-Complex. Another example of megadosing is panthothenic acid (B-5) for acne. One rare side effect is hairloss and it is assumed it comes from a deficency in biotin, therefore people that do megadose are encourged to take not only a B-complex but extra biotin as well.

I have a vitamin book "A to Z guide to supplements' I looked up Biotin for about the 10th time whenever I see some posts on it. The authors Balch says that " One Hundred Milligrams of Biotin daily may prevent hairloss in some men". Now thats a lot of Biotin. So doubt from that statement that a small amount of it will do much. I have 1 mgs which I take once per day with my multi vitamin which has a small amount of Biotin. As someone else said be cautious when taking mega doses of any vitamin or supplement even the water soluble ones.

Richlocks:
Damn.. that's alot of biotin.. 15mg? Where can you get such huge doses? they only come in mcg as far as i know..

up to 5mg (5.000mcg) biotin pills are available in the US. That's why I told that that up to that quantity it should be safe.

RockBottom:
So is it suggested that accutane causes a biotin defficiency that is permanent even after finishing the drug? or will biotin only help accutane hair loss sufferers who lose their hair during the actual course of the drug?

That's a good question I too asked myself. I think that people would benefit in both cases, but only experience would answer though...

tdu:
Can your body even use 15 mg of Biotin a day? That is a massive dose. I take a supplement, and there is biotin in my muti-vitamin. I can't imagine needing anymore then that.

What about people taking 5.000mg of pantotenic acid daily to treat acne while my vitamin supplement only has 11,60mg of it (193% of daily suggested amount).
I take a supplement and there is pantotenic acid in my multi-vitamin but it's not enough to treat acne. Same with biotin and hair. (If you're talking about consequences due to deficiency like in the case of accutane, that's even a whole different story)

hairnoevil:
Everything you put in your body can cause an imbalance if you take too much, for instance, too much biotin can cause insulin problems, the need for more Vitamin C and B6 and increased blood sugar which then leads to other health problems etc etc.

How much is too much biotin?

Fallb4TheClown:
Well, Biotin is water soluble so therefore it will get flused out of your system and not stored. However, it is possible that could cause an imbalance in other b vitamins. Maybe one should consider taking a B-Complex

I told that in the first post in this thread.
One NEEDS to take a b-complex when taking higher doses of biotin.

OB:
I have a vitamin book "A to Z guide to supplements' I looked up Biotin for about the 10th time whenever I see some posts on it. The authors Balch says that " One Hundred Milligrams of Biotin daily may prevent hairloss in some men". Now thats a lot of Biotin.

God! 100 mg ?! Isn't it 100 mCg ?!
How old is this book?

Edited: 02/01/2004 at 05:51 PM by Leandro

Guys Accutane at high dossage cause hairloss cause is a retinoid and the retinoids are anti-angiogenesis substances and almost all the drugs on the marcket ( if not all ) that have as a sidde effect hairloss is cause there are anti-angiogenesis . If you want to know more about Angiogenesis you could go to the Angiogenesis Fundation

"An old laboratory study showed that rats fed with low biotin levels lost all their hair, but when once taking high doses of biotin their hair restored"
With all the respect Leandro, if you fed a rat with low iron level that it will also happen as also with happen with many others substances.


Edited: 02/01/2004 at 06:53 PM by guillermo

Anyway if you take low dossage of accutane , 20mg or 10mg per day hairloss is not a problem

Edited: 02/01/2004 at 07:03 PM by guillermo