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Topic Title: What is the best topical DHT Inhibitor?
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Created On: 04/21/2003 10:31 PM
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 04/21/2003 10:31 PM
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CrazyJoe
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I was wondering if I could add a product to my regimen to inhibit DHT, I already have Minox and Folligen and these are for regrowth and I do see some but not much its only been 2.5 months though.

If I have DHT still destroying follices then regrowth will be lost, right? I am not sure but adding a topical DHT Inhibitor with the 2 regrowth products should help me keep my hair seeing that I am responding to them somewhat.

Its just short of going for Propecia and I wanna do everything I can before I get on that stuff topically, If I can't hold on to my hair then I'll go on it and use topicals, but lately my shed it so minimal I do not see the need.

I love the Minox, and the Folligen, all irritation has passed with time and I am getting EMU Oil as well, I have no problems applying them and I am seeing growth where I have never seen it before.

I am trying to get folligen + Minox + topical DHT Inhibitor

I love the Jason Shampoo's and use 2% Nizoral and my hair is really healthy looking and growing nicely.

I was just asking if a DHT Inhibitor would help even more, so I stop the DHT from destroying the hair follicles, and have products I tolerate well for regrowth.

Whats best? I am trying to get folligen + Minox + topical DHT Inhibitor:


2%, 5%, Spiro Lotion?
Revivogen?
Crinagen?
Zix?
any others?

Which one would fit in my regimen the best and when and how often do I apply it?

I was gonna get Dr. Lee's 2% Spiro lotion, but not sure how to incorporate it into my regimen.

I think this is what I need, short of taking Propecia.

Are topical DHT Inhibitors just as effective as Propecia? cause the Spiro stuff i read has no side effects and I don't wanna risk my libido, and develop breasts if I don't have to.

Thx.
 04/21/2003 10:40 PM
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pipo!
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SPIRO....Definately...dont try that other sh|t (zix excluded, that may be good, heard good stuff)....I use Lee's %5 cream, but Ive heard that his 2 % liquid works better. I dont use the liquid bc i like to use it in the morning and the cream is like a conditioner, and no smell. But it depends on you. You can also make it yourself, do a search on one of the sites and there's a recipe.

pipo

-------------------------
Lee's xandrox 15 w/o ppg (at night)
Fin 1.25mg
1% Niz 3xweek
Nan0 everyday
Folligen lotion mixed with Nano conditioner am (leave in)
Folligen lotion and cream at night before minox

Edited: 04/21/2003 at 10:41 PM by Hair Loss Help Moderator
 04/21/2003 10:49 PM
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CrazyJoe
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Ok, thx, I'll have to use it in the morning as well after I shower and after I apply the Minox in the morning cause I use Folligen before bed.

So Minoxidil 2% + Folligen at night and Minoxidil 2% + Spiro cream 5% in the morning should do the trick?

Not much else I can do topically then can I? just have to go with that for a while and see if I need Propecia after maybe 6-8 months of that regimen but I am confident that this combo will help me alot, seeing how the conditions for regrowth are there with a healthy scalp, just need to add the DHT inhibitor and go for the ride.

 04/21/2003 11:02 PM
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muchobob
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I heard spiro isnt really all that effective, it seems like on here most guys dont think it really helps. To me it seems like Lipozyt plus will work a lot better.
Bob
 04/22/2003 11:03 AM
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jackster
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if your going to try spiro, i like the 2% dabber bottle application from Dr. lee..its easy to use...i also use crinagen.


try the 2% spiro,,,its easy and no mess...just dab it on
you should also go to 5% minox 2x daily(try Dr.lee's minox ,you will love it..dry's fast and non greasy). your 2% spiro at night before minox application,last folligen


good luck
godspeed with hair



Edited: 04/22/2003 at 11:05 AM by Hair Loss Help Moderator
 04/22/2003 11:41 AM
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muchobob
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Have any of you guys actually found spiro to be helpful, because it sounds like lipozyt plus is much better
 04/22/2003 12:14 PM
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pipo!
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Ive actually read alot of great testimony about topical spiro over the years, even from some who were using it as their only treatment. I on the other hand have great success in general with Fin, minox, Folligen, spiro. So who knows in my case which is doing the work...probably the first three mostly, but who knows. One thing though, my hairline is my best responder and I use spiro there once a day...corraletive? I dunno.

As far as saying that "I havent heard many spiro results, I think Lipozyt plus should be good", where are those good rsults? I have searched extensively for lipozyt results and have found.....ZERO positive results on all the big HL forums. In fact, there are lots of testimonies saying the stuff is overpriced garbage. Overpriced yes, but we really dont know if it works. If anybody who uses it reads this, chime in please...we need more feedback.

From what Ive read, the two most cost effecient (and proven) topical DHT inhibitors seem to be Zix and spiro...And by proven, I mean good feedback for the zix. Spiro has some studies behind it...ask Bryan.
pipo

-------------------------
Lee's xandrox 15 w/o ppg (at night)
Fin 1.25mg
1% Niz 3xweek
Nan0 everyday
Folligen lotion mixed with Nano conditioner am (leave in)
Folligen lotion and cream at night before minox
 04/22/2003 12:28 PM
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muchobob
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Yeah I know BillyBob is using lipozyt plus and I think he likes it, it just seemed that people were telling me that spiro doesnt really work, but i don tknow
 04/22/2003 12:38 PM
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pipo!
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But take his neutral response and juxtapose it with spiro comments such as "its the only thing Ive used for a year and it has stopped my HL and regrew some hair" This without minox or fin. My gut tells me its a good product...like you Im not sure of anything. (And of course, we all want the products that WE ourselves use to be good ones bc we dont want to feel that all the $ weve dumped in the stuff was for nothing...so sorry, didnt mean to get too passionate back there)
pipo

-------------------------
Lee's xandrox 15 w/o ppg (at night)
Fin 1.25mg
1% Niz 3xweek
Nan0 everyday
Folligen lotion mixed with Nano conditioner am (leave in)
Folligen lotion and cream at night before minox
 04/22/2003 01:11 PM
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LetsGetHairy
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Yo Pipo, do you know if you're only supposed to use the 2% spiro once daily? I know the bottle says to use it before nighttime minox application, but I usually use it twice, after the shower and a few hours before night minox application. Thanks for any info.
 04/22/2003 01:35 PM
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rastafarianrobot
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If you are going to use Spiro, you really need to allot it 1 full year before making a firm decision regarding how well it works for you.

Reason being is the Italian study I've seen that Bryan has on his website shows baseline and 12 month pictures. The study wasn't the MOST professional but it clearly shows that Spiro has the potential to work on the hairline. The picture I saw actually showed where one guy regrew a chunk of hair that was missing on his temples.

So give it go but make sure and give it ample time. If you aren't willing to do that then don't bother...
 04/22/2003 04:58 PM
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muchobob
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shoot, now I can't decide whether to go with spiro or with lipozyt plus, anyone have an opinion on which to go with? It seems that lipozyt plus might work faster. But on the other hand spiro may be better, idk, if anyone could point me in the right direction...
 04/22/2003 06:12 PM
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cane
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I agree with Bryan, that term "DHT inhibitor" isn't quite correct. There can be either "5-aR inhibitor" or "anti-androgen".

As to your question, for the topical approach I would say that the best would be Fluridil/Eucapil, but it is hard to obtain (only in Prague). Second best I'd say topical flutamide, and then topical spironolactone. Theoretically though, nothing beats RU-58841 (as do the studies show). Only few lucky people are using it as of now because it still isn't commercially produced, but it will be on the market in 2-3 years.

Another product which has the potential to be great topical tool is Green Tea Extract, but it is hard to come up with the proper vehicle. I've been experimenting with this compound for quite some time and I think that I finally found the proper vehicle. I haven't tested it for MPB though, but let me just say that my acne vulgaris is now non-existent And it decreases sebum very much, so I guess you should give it a try (it's cheap at BAC).
I'll post details of the formula in a day or so.

John


Edited: 04/22/2003 at 06:14 PM by Hair Loss Help Moderator
 04/22/2003 06:27 PM
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muchobob
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Cane,
what do you think of Lipozyt Plus?
 04/22/2003 07:12 PM
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pipo!
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<< Yo Pipo, do you know if you're only supposed to use the 2% spiro once daily? I know the bottle says to use it before nighttime minox application, but I usually use it twice, after the shower and a few hours before night minox application. Thanks for any info. >>

As far as I know, the indication to take it once daily means "at least to see results"...IOW, for customer compliance issues. I went a span of 6 moths using the %5 cream twice daily and I asked Dr. Lee if that were alright and he said it was. I dont do it now bc for me the cost, $ and time, dont outweigh the benefit I believe Id see from doing so. I use it in the morning, and at night I use Folligen and then an hour later minox, mixed with Fin. I use about ten 5mg Dr. Reddy tabs crushed into the minox solution, Ive experienced good results doing this in the past. I know Bryan thinks it is useless, but I believe what he means is useless in the sense that it does not work as well as systemic use of Fin.

What John said above (cane) is right, we use the term DHT inhibitor very loosely. Spiro is in fact, I believe, an anti-androgen. It competes for DHT at the reptor site in the follicle and does not actually "inhibit DHT". This is my layman's understanding of it and of course I may be wrong. (Not that well versed in this stuff).
pipo

-------------------------
Lee's xandrox 15 w/o ppg (at night)
Fin 1.25mg
1% Niz 3xweek
Nan0 everyday
Folligen lotion mixed with Nano conditioner am (leave in)
Folligen lotion and cream at night before minox
 04/22/2003 07:30 PM
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travis7277
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If your hair ceases to fall out anymore - is that a good thing. The obvious answer seems to be yes, however, what about shrinkage of follicles. Is it a possible scenario that your hair will stop falling out but appear thinner..because the follicles are shrinking?

-------------------------
Proxiphen (Prescription strength) or Spironolactone
Rogaine Foam
Folligen

Edited: 04/22/2003 at 07:31 PM by Hair Loss Help Moderator
 04/22/2003 07:56 PM
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pipo!
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<< If your hair ceases to fall out anymore - is that a good thing. The obvious answer seems to be yes, however, what about shrinkage of follicles. Is it a possible scenario that your hair will stop falling out but appear thinner..because the follicles are shrinking? >>



Again, anyone correct me if Im wrong. But I think that hair never ceases to fallout...you just notice it less. I believe a heal;thy hair growth cycle for an individual hair is about 6 years. When the follicle begins to aptrophy due to DHT choking the follicle the hair fall out sooner and after a resting phase, a new, weaker hair begins to grow in its place...the new cycle will be shorter and the next hair to grow will be thinner and so on and so forth...I believe it is possible for hairs to change diameters during their growth cycle, whether it is thicker or thinner. But to answer your question, sorry, but your hair falls out everyday. In fact you lose about 100/day...you just might not be noticing it as much....hope this helps.
pipo

-------------------------
Lee's xandrox 15 w/o ppg (at night)
Fin 1.25mg
1% Niz 3xweek
Nan0 everyday
Folligen lotion mixed with Nano conditioner am (leave in)
Folligen lotion and cream at night before minox
 04/23/2003 01:15 PM
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cane
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<< Cane,
what do you think of Lipozyt Plus?
>>



Never heard of it.. is it one of lipoxidil formulas? what are the ingredients?
 04/23/2003 03:47 PM
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muchobob
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Cane,
heres a link, lemme know what you think, sorry I didnt know how to link it right
http://www.lipoxidil.com/lipozyt.htm
lemme know
thanks,
Bob
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