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Topic Title: Hair transplant marketers
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Created On: 05/29/2017 07:49 AM
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 05/29/2017 07:49 AM
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topcat
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I read a post the other day by Dr. Cole on Hairsite. I liked it and more importantly in my opinion much of this was stated about 15 years ago by this forum and this forum owner. One could say he was ahead of his time or one can simply say he has integrity. At 54 I would say I see very little integrity in the world and the ht industry is only a microcosm. Doctors have a choice they can support integrity or they can decide not to..........it's called free will

I wrote this once in a post but if people don't read it then it can't help them.


The absolute most valuable post ever written on a forum was written by a forum owner Farrell almost 15 years ago. Burn it into your brain daily before reading the forums.

Here is that post from what is now about 15 years ago by this forum owner.

See I'm all about quality, not quantity. The ethical surgeons who understand that I am not here to promote them will benefit at the expense of the ones who think that I, like you, are here to promote them.

My customer is the man in the street who is losing their hair. My loyalties are to them. Because of my stance people prefer my site to yours because they know where my interests lie. You are too short sighted to realize that the real money is in the hands of the patients, not the doctors. I have been able to make doctors incredibly successful who do good work and have the patients best interest at heart.

This site will never be run along the lines of your ***********. I don't beleive its a successful long term model. You cannot play consumer advocate and transplant marketer at the same time There's a good saying that goes: "You can't have your ass on two chairs"

I am consistent in my beliefs and while some doctors have disagreed with me, they have always respected me. I stood my ground to people who have sent me lawyers letters in the past, and they still wanted to support this site.

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.

Edited: 05/29/2017 at 07:58 AM by topcat
 06/30/2017 06:53 AM
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If hair cloning ever becomes successful then hair transplants as we currently know them will be ancient history. The problem is that if you're 40 or older then any of these ongoing advances being studied will most likely not make it in our lifetimes. Hate to be cynical but that's how it looks. So for the foreseeable future marketers will inhabit forums or set up fake blogs with anonymous names promoting their company by pretending to be a satisfied customer. Scamming is as old as mankind, people just need to do research before spending money. There are good hair transplant doctors out there.
 06/30/2017 12:01 PM
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topcat
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If hair cloning ever becomes successful then hair transplants as we currently know them will be ancient history. The problem is that if you're 40 or older then any of these ongoing advances being studied will most likely not make it in our lifetimes. Hate to be cynical but that's how it looks. So for the foreseeable future marketers will inhabit forums or set up fake blogs with anonymous names promoting their company by pretending to be a satisfied customer. Scamming is as old as mankind, people just need to do research before spending money. There are good hair transplant doctors out there.



I would disagree technology is advancing exponentially and for most older guys desperation is no longer part of the equation so if it comes great if not is less of an issue.

Yes I agree scamming will always go on and it doesn't hurt to teach the young boys that their desperation and lack of life experience makes them open targets for those that are looking to make easy money.

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.
 06/30/2017 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by: topcat
I would disagree technology is advancing exponentially and for most older guys desperation is no longer part of the equation so if it comes great if not is less of an issue.

Hopefully I'm wrong and you're right but 20 years ago if someone had said minoxidil and finasteride/dutasteride would still be the only games in town 20 years later I'd have said no way, but they are.

Minoxidil has been around since the 50s and they knew it caused hypertrichosis early on. That's almost 60 years ago and it remains as the only approved topical for hair loss. They don't even seem interested in improving it much, being content to sit back and roll in profits with its minimal results. Doesn't give much hope but you never know, if something does come along that's better it'll probably be discovered by accident.
 07/02/2017 09:21 AM
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topcat
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X where I don't agree with you is we are not talking about some random guy putting together a blog or youtube video. We are talking about a group of marketers working together in many ways to create a narrative which is very often false or filled with half truths. For the consumer this can be incredibly dangerous as they look around them for cues in making decisions and when large numbers seem to be agreeing they easily fall into a trap which a forum can become. The more information posted online from independent sources the better the odds are the consumer can walk away informed and i try to do my part.

Marketers are an odd bunch they don't seem to really care as long as they are making money. Yes they will put on the caring face but it's just a mask. Here is the experience of Lorenzo someone that actually works in the ht industry. His big mistake was that he revealed his truth because he is not a marketer but simply an interpreter for a clinic. He probably thought he was doing the right thing which is normal but marketers don't see it that way because maybe they are not normal. Shortly after his posting he seemed to have become very discouraged and now does not post or if so at a minimum which is partly how all this works.

I was warning about this tattooing idea long ago and posted pictures of lymph nodes with ink lodged inside them. Too bad he didn't see my posts. But even with his actual posted experience doctors will continue to market the procedure and that should be worrisome for those that are looking for ethics.

Here is that timeline.

He first got his SMP in 2012 within 3 months he was diagnosed with cancer. He then received another SMP session during his chemo. After 1.5 years he received a touch up procedure and once again 3 months later his cancer returned this time to his brain. Both instances were blood cancer and he required 2 bone marrow transplants. He seems to believe it's all related and I do to.

As more information is provided one tends to see marketing traffic drop off which is the topic of the thread.

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.
 07/02/2017 07:18 PM
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What I was referring to was the company itself or its owner creating a blog and pretending to be a satisfied customer to sell their products. Amazon has had this problem of reviewers who are the sellers giving rave reviews of their products. You'll no doubt find this with hair transplant clinics or other medical services. Other than that I agree with what you said regarding independent sources but even there some third party reviewers have been known to be paid to give positive reviews. I know it all sounds like no one can be trusted but reputations for quality are built and there are ways to verify it.
 07/13/2017 12:34 PM
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hairhope4ever
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Topcat,

This is one of the best and most important threads started.

The lack of integrity, transparency, and honest results is startling and alarming in this industry. Monetization comes at the expense of the 3 things i aforementioned. I can relate to this personally because my insecurity at the age of 19 led to me making 4 really bad surgical decisions which left me scarred and donor depleted before finally having a procedure with Dr. Umar.

I hope whoever reads this thread heeds my advice of doing their due diligence on clinics and doctors because there are a lot of frivolous claims out there.


http://hairtransplanttestimonial.blogspot.com/

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Happy Patient

Read about my positive hair transplant experiences here:
http://hairtransplanttestimonial.blogspot.com/
 07/14/2017 04:00 AM
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topcat
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HH4E the reality is that most guys will have 4000-5000 fue grafts available long term if they are lucky. The reality is that is 20-25% of their hair back for most guys long term. The reality is if they start too young the numbers will not add up. The reality is there are no second chances the choice has to be right the first time. This is a skin grafting procedure with hair cutting out thousands and thousands of pieces of skin all over one's head that have hair attached, moving it around and trying to make it look normal and not like Frankenstein's monster.

Then reality is that these guys that think they can have body and beard hair to rely on to add to the numbers will not look normal in most cases unless it's a very limited amount. Most of those large cases look bizarre and that is simply about making money. Yes if a repair patient has no choice it has it's place but it's very limited and needs to be done in a slow methodical way and not as a 10,000 graft procedure. Those types of procedures are completely reckless and place the repair patient at even greater risk. Especially the cases that start getting into the crown when it's not necessary. They end up leaving the patient look ridiculous as the difference between head hair and bht/beard hair is very obvious.

Most should probably avoid the procedure until they are well over 30 and understand it all much better. Then by 30 very often for many their priorities change.

Yes the marketers work the forums on a daily basis for years. Many that got talked into giant procedures are suffering the consequences. Some of those same patients that went for the giant procedures that were failures were convinced that giant bht/beard hairs would save them until those too failed.

When forums, marketers and doctors work together to create deception it is marketing fraud and/or conspiracy to commit marketing fraud. When patients come back to complain and they are attacked by marketers it's disgraceful and all part of the fraud.

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.

Edited: 07/14/2017 at 12:23 PM by topcat
 11/20/2017 05:58 AM
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topcat
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Below are comments from 2 different podcasts focusing on the same person David Asprey. They follow a common trend within the group. The Joe Rogan audience is less open to David Asprey and his bulletproof products while with David's own podcast there seems to be almost a cult like following.

What happens is if one does not feel any desperation for a solution to something as in the Joe Rogan group which is simply looking to be entertained they tend to be more objective by using their frontal cortex and logic. On the other hand those whom feel some desperation and without going into detailed brain biology use other parts of their brain. This same principle applies to the marketing of hair transplantation. The more desperate you are the less objective you can be and this is why if you feel desperation you absolutely need to confide in family/close friends. They can better assess what you are hearing and seeing.


Joe Rogan Podcast

This guy sounds like the biggest bullshitter. I don't know if it's his tone of voice, ridiculous stories, or his mannerisms. I have no idea if his coffee is legit or not, but the way he talks doesn't help him. I even find it obnoxious.

Bulletproof podcast
Dave you are my hero. You are making huge changes in this world your work is way ahead of its time. I am so grateful for you. Thank you. Please, keep kicking ass.



BTW I was using MCT oil almost 25 years ago. It turned out to be sh*t then and my opinion is the same today. But sometimes you can take something old and make it new again. The new group doesn't know history so it's very easy. What I can tell you is health and performance is about nutrition through real whole foods and not drinking oil but there will always be desperate people out there so there will always be sh*tball marketers to sell them something that makes easy money.

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.

Edited: 11/20/2017 at 06:53 AM by topcat
 01/25/2018 04:41 AM
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topcat
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Some observation of a Poster/marketer that might be of value for those researching.

Age 22

Hair transplants 1

Advice: 8,000-10-000 grafts available for most and it's better to live now and enjoy hair. A message that is consistently repeated over and over again. Surely something that will appeal to youth with not much information and are easy sells as they feel most desperate. Especially when the graft price is extremely low as he is a Turkish patient where you can find the conveyor belt system in place.

Postings: in the hundreds if not thousands yet he is 22.

Doctors recommended: has his list which he repeats over and over while bashing others. Perhaps the list is a diversion as the real enticement becomes the low price of going to Turkey.

Additional advice: If a doctor does not have a presence on the forums he is not worth much. If he does not have a presence on a forum coming from a 22 year old. That is a very odd comment.

Main country pushed: Turkey

Question is this poster real or simply a marketer? Unknown

Recently there was a Turkish rep that spilled his guts online on how the operation works. Will this person do the same at some point in the future? unknown at this time and further observation is necessary.

Evaluation: most likely a marketer and very easy for those young and new to fall into the trap. Not normal for a 22 year old to have thousands of posts. Not normal for a 22 year old to quote history that easily goes back well over 20 years. Of course there are more red flags that appear which I will not go into here.

Take away message: Stay aware and stay safe. You do not have 8,000-10,000 grafts available in all likelihood. You might have 5,000 if you are very lucky long term. If you are under 30 and don't know where you hairloss is heading long term then having surgery is a very poor decision on your part but many will do their best to convince to hop on board. Surgery only makes sense when you understand how this all works including the marketing.

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.

Edited: 01/25/2018 at 04:51 AM by topcat
 01/29/2018 04:35 AM
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Anyone that follows the crypto space will know that several Youtube promoters are being sued and there is a class action suit that has been initiated. Much of this comes down to marketing fraud and consumers not having full disclosure.

Same applies to the ht industry if you were not given full disclosure. For example we know of at least one person that works in the industry that feels there is a connection with his hair tattoo and a recurrence of cancer. Most in the industry that post to the forums are aware of this so it should be of concern. Did you go for a hair tattoo and were you given full disclosure? It all works the same way.

If you don't follow the crypto space now is a good time. You will learn something about marketers and you will see the douche bags very clearly, why? Because you don't feel any desperation with the issue and that is a valuable lesson.

Same applies to the area of weight loss and health. Evaluate what you are seeing and ask yourself if you see the same in the hair industry.

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.
 02/24/2018 01:59 AM
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topcat
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Skilled doctors with integrity work for themselves and their work speaks for itself.

Marketers work for themselves.

There is your choice. If you plan on proceeding with a surgical procedure understand this key point. Highly skilled doctors require a certain type of personality. It requires not only natural ability but a willingness to keep doing the hard work day in and day out over and over again when others take an easier path. When one puts in this type of effort they usually become resistant to others being able to parasite off of them.

I would suggest staying away from the procedure for many reasons including it's limitations for most and technology moving too fast. But if you feel you have no choice go with skill as it has been presented over time and not marketers.

To understand what doing the work means I would suggest watching the Rogan/Goggins interview. David Goggin types tell parasites to f off...............why...........because they understand what doing the work means.

Who are all these posters out there? Who is this 22 year old boy for example JeanDD constantly encouraging young boys to have large procedures? Is that normal behavior for a 22 year old boy who recites 30 years of hair transplant history? Much of what you may be reading could be fake so just understand it and those that take part in it are committing marketing fraud.

Leonardo Da Vinci and Michelangelo were not on the list........they must have really sucked ass..............or maybe it's the guys on the list that were sucking ass?

Rogan/Goggins

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.

Edited: 02/24/2018 at 05:22 AM by topcat
 02/28/2018 04:09 AM
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topcat
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If you are considering surgery and you want to keep yourself safe view at least a dozen very high norwoods with before pictures in person to truly understand the limitations of surgical hair restoration. Pictures are okay but you will never truly understand until multiple hair transplants are viewed in person. If you are basing your choice strictly on pictures then you do not understand the procedure making you a poor candidate. In fact visit ht doctors that have had a procedure themselves and judge with your own eyes.

Clinics showing lower thick hairlines on younger guys are telling you they are the wrong choice. They are being deceptive at the get go. Go to Dr. Bernstein's site and you will see complete honesty for example. So ask yourself why the huge discrepancy?

If a clinic is using a celebrity it's a red flag. They are using tribal leaders to woo the rest as opposed to results over time. Yes it's a quick way to generate loads of revenue but you as a consumer are not interested in generating loads of revenue as a type of marketing tactic you are looking not to be harmed and have a great long term result.

When taking advice from online posters meet them in person in their home and not some bar, café, etc. In their home along with the family if it applies. You want to see how they live and where they live. What kind of car do they drive..............maybe it's the 911 Porsche and does that matter? When someone knows you know where they live and can visit it tends to keep them honest. So if you are going to listen to posters like JeanDD for example go visit him or any of the other names that endlessly post online year after year. They devote so much time into all of this surely they would welcome you into their home because they are all about helping people.

Go for the smallest procedure possible as a great way to keep yourself safe. No one to trust better then yourself. Then you can decide if cutting out pieces of skin and moving around it a great idea. Yes it can work but if you honestly believe that anyone can do this I would say you are completely wrong and yes you do have guys in this business for decades that are able to produce shit work and still do business. Ask yourself how is that even possible?

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.

Edited: 03/03/2018 at 03:57 PM by topcat
 03/08/2018 05:35 AM
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topcat
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Stay away from marketers. If you believe any of these online posters without meeting up with them in their home chances are you will be filled with regret if you opt for a procedure. Most of it is simple marketing fraud.

Meet up with the hair transplant boy genius 22 year old JeanDD and let me know what you come back with.

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.

Edited: 03/08/2018 at 11:32 AM by topcat
 03/27/2018 02:09 AM
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topcat
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This is a post from a 22 year old that posts every day to the forums and quotes history going back 20+years. Is this person JeanDD a marketer or simply someone trying to help advise young boys to go to places like Turkey for these procedures which entail very large numbers? When a young guy comes back and is not as pleased the response from JeanDD is You're very highly strung and can't look realistically at your own situation . Do you think this is normal from a so called 22 year old and what exactly is going on here?

Maybe you are older and see something a young desperate boy might miss but what does it say about the industry?

Interesting hairloss topic to discuss in your own mind. Logic and observation over time reveals truth.

The reason this is important to point is because the poster paleocapa bought into the whole pitch of going to Turkey as an example. It turned out to be shit for him but more importantly this young man posted about the issues he was now faced with and sometimes that comes down to seeking help from a mental healthcare professional. He certainly was not going to find it on the forum. Once the complaining becomes to much those same marketers want to treat you like a little bitch and tell you to move on. And the truth is all these marketers are beta males. They are little geeks and that is why they are able to do this crap. Please just stay aware if you are a young guy and don't become a victim of marketing fraud.

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.

Edited: 03/27/2018 at 06:20 AM by topcat
 03/29/2018 06:45 AM
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topcat
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What you can learn is that once the marketer no longer needs the patient you can and will be treated like shit should you now be bad for business.



Not to worry because doctors are just as dumb. That too get treated like shit once the marketer no longer needs them. This is why you can't believe all reviews you read online because it could simply be a disgruntled marketer that lost a source of income.



Keep observing and keep learning.

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.
 04/12/2018 06:06 AM
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topcat
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Marketers suffer from the Dunning Kruger effect of that there is no doubt. They believe if they can talk it up enough people will start to believe them. If you are considering a procedure look for a doctor that has been in the business for years and has a history of results to back it all up that "WORKS WITHIN THE NUMBERS" and they don't rely on marketers. The work is the marketing.

The Dunning Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which individuals, who are unskilled at a particular task, believe themselves to possess above-average ability in performing the task. On the other hand, as individuals become more skilled in a particular task, they may mistakenly believe that they possess below-average ability in performing those tasks because they may assume that all others possess equal or greater ability. In other words, "the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others"

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.
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