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Topic Title: Can Proscar cause bloated face?
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Created On: 01/23/2017 12:40 PM
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 01/23/2017 12:40 PM
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aqalp
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Been on Proscar, 1/4 pill, every 2nd day for past 10 months. Can bloated or increased fat in the cheeks and jaw be a side effect? I'm not obese, yet my face seems to have become more noticably puffy.

Edited: 01/24/2017 at 11:49 AM by aqalp
 01/31/2017 10:30 AM
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devilhunter
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Thats a known side effect of minox, additionally, reducing dht may result in weight gain. In other words, if you get more fats, that generally means you have to eat less fatty food.
 02/01/2017 05:27 AM
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topcat
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Having been an avid reader of fitness magazines and books when I was younger the discussion of "moon face" was often brought up in the literature. The bodybuilders that were on steroids would suffer from it along with bloated guts and acne. So I would say it is possible that once you start messing with the endocrine system there are short term and long term consequences that are going to differ for each individual. For example some guys experience gyno right away while others do not.

Long term I think the biggest issue might be with the redistribution of fat. Losing it from the shoulder area and gaining it in the chest and hip area. The concern with that is it changes a man's SHR (shoulder to hip ratio) which is easily picked up by women more so then hair in my opinion. The majority of men assess a woman's HWR (hip to waist ratio) almost immediately upon meeting for the first time either on a conscious or subconscious level. Women do exactly the same and narrow shoulders or the appearance of due to wider hips is an instant cue without going into a long explantion and it's not a good one.

Of course this all takes years and years to manifest itself along with the decreased drive for vigorous physical activity. This is also going to matter because as one ages health becomes more of a concern then hair and if one does not have the drive well then exercise might no longer be an option.


One is then also caught in a trap similar but different from those that have had hair transplants. What is one to do if this starts to become a concern? Does one give it up after years of use or does one try to balance the cognitive dissonance they are feeling by trying to encourage others that it's all good and they should give it a try. Similar to those that might drink heavily or use drugs. It becomes easier to get other to participate then to confront the possibility that one has gone down the wrong road.

Someone just gave me a book last night. They know what I like because I tend to talk about it almost too much. I could tell by the title right away with a big smile on my face that yes this is a book that looks like it's going to be good.

The title: Connected ( How Your Friends' Friends, Friends' Affect Everything You Feel, Think, and Do) and the point even though I have not read it yet is the information you are consistently exposed to shapes your beliefs. Always safer to step outside that circle of influence and listen to others especially when the circle of influence discourages you from doing so.

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.

Edited: 02/01/2017 at 05:38 AM by topcat
 02/01/2017 06:11 AM
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juniorlawrence
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topcat- you are one interesting dude.

Puffy face from proscar, never happened to me. Like devilhunter says from minoxidil I heard (not me though)

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 02/02/2017 06:16 AM
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topcat
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Junior what I have come to believe over many years is that one needs to take in as much information as possible and most especially from those that seem to be saying something completely different and those that don't have larger platforms. Consider it all then use observation and logic and very often the pieces start to fit together and one gets closer to the truth.

What I like to tell those that are close to me is I thought I knew something about health and fitness after about 20 years. But it wasn't until I stopped listening to marketers and marketing information and started looking towards those that did not have these large money making platforms that I started to make progress. As a consequence my whole philosophy started to change and now I tell people around me about some of those changes. For example dietary. For the last 15 years I have eaten a dozen eggs a day. For the last year I have eaten 2-3 dozen eggs a day along with other high cholesterol foods just as a starting point in the conversation. My strength, stamina, speed and mental function has never been better. I then ask those around me that are similar in age 54 how do you explain that? How is it possible that you are obese and/or on multiple medications yet I am experiencing robust health by doing exactly the opposite of what you have been conditioned to believe? The only explanation is that there is often more money in telling lies or getting someone to believe something that enriches others regardless of the consequences. So we really have to be careful of what we believe and that goes for anything.

I have never been faster or stronger and this is a recent picture. It is only because of food choices and lifestyle nothing else. No medications, no doctors, none of it for years and years. How do you explain it? My answer is you are being lied to but maybe someone else has a different answer. Consider them all then use observation and logic.

The picture below my own picture is Jerry Lewis before and after steroid medication. It is referred to as "moon face" and not everyone suffers the side effect but some do so yes it is possible.







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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.
 02/02/2017 11:38 AM
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aqalp
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Thanks for replies. I'm currently only on the Proscar, not Minox. I don't eat fast food, but prob should exercise more. Never knew about that"moon face" though. That looks scary.
 02/04/2017 02:51 AM
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tryingtwo
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Taking Proscar raises ones testosterone which in turn increases estrogen which is exacerbated by far lower amounts of dht. Resulting in puffiness. The solution to a puffy face caused by Proscar are mild anti estrogens. Ashwaghanda, Suma, tongkat ali, etc. Search natural anti estrogens online, there's a ton of them. As an aside, I would rather take dut 2 times a week which is about equal to what you are doing with Proscar. DUT is much safer, that's up to you. God bless
 02/05/2017 04:45 AM
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topcat
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double post

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.

Edited: 02/05/2017 at 04:53 AM by topcat
 02/05/2017 04:49 AM
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topcat
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Sure you can try to balance it out but long term just like all the older people on multiple medications each trying to balance the other one out it's not a good long term plan. Even young guys are using hormone replacement or pharmaceutical estrogen blockers thinking they can do this for years without consequences. Sorry but I do not believe that to be true. Like smoking cigarettes sure you can do it for a while but long term is where the consequences start to show up.

You are sacrificing masculinity for hair. If this is for attracting women you have it all wrong. At the top of the list for women are resources and/or the ability to get them and masculinity as a sign of health. If fact even more so with masculinity when a woman is most fertile they seek masculinity over resources and it explains why women often stray when with a man that only has resources.

Yes the hairloss medications are great for the ht business as they can help with showcase patients while also justifying a larger pool of patients that otherwise might be considered too young.

Women are simply not attracted to men that look like they are growing boobs and have fat redistributed to their hips. I think many of these long time users of hairloss medications are caught in a trap and there is simply no way out of it especially those that have had surgery. Ask yourself if you want to end up in the same position 20 years out then make a decision. Try to base it on logic and less on emotion.

I would guess most balding ht doctors that have decided to forego a ht procedure because they understand the numbers probably have decided the same with hair loss medications. Wonder why they don't just shave their head and have dots tattooed on it. There must be a reason.

This is why getting into the gym or some other type of vigorous activity is so important more so then hair. Yes if you can have hair great but don't sacrifice one for the other. Getting conditioned is very easy my advice first off is don't listen to marketers. I spent 40 years learning the subject the first 25 was wasted because I believed marketers. Now I do just the opposite zero supplements because it's just marketing nonsense to make money. Same goes for hair yes ht in very limited numbers going with fue and only a handful of doctors probably less than 5 to choose from. Exactly the opposite of what marketers have been telling young guys for the last 20 years with the mega session strip and dozens of doctors to choose from.

Marketers get paid to promote products that simply can't stand on their own. Do what makes logical sense.

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.

Edited: 02/05/2017 at 06:56 AM by topcat
 02/06/2017 03:45 PM
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toppikk
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topcat i wonder if you use to do HIIT, like doing some sprints?

Edited: 02/07/2017 at 02:08 AM by toppikk
 02/07/2017 02:20 AM
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topcat
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Yes Toppikk it's all high intensity combined with the right foods and zero supplements. I have a pictorial record from my 20's, 30s, 40s, and 50s. The difference of moving away from supplements to strictly the right foods is drastic. Same principle as hair loss you need the right information to make the right decisions then of course it all becomes easy. Getting the information from the right sources is the hard part many of us simply don't know we are not getting the right information and that we are simply receiving marketing information disguised as a helping hand.


Yes plenty of sprints.

BTW I don't think one can achieve optimum health if they are lowering dht on a long term basis. It seems to take away one's drive for hard physical work. So it becomes a choice between short term and long term benefits. I would argue from my own experience and observations most that are experiencing ill health or less then optimum health always have regrets when looking back and wished they would have made different choices. In fact it is usually the ultimate regret. But I also understand it's not easy to reverse course.

Something for young guys to think about.

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.

Edited: 02/07/2017 at 02:32 AM by topcat
 02/07/2017 07:48 AM
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4myfuture
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Originally posted by: topcat

Junior what I have come to believe over many years is that one needs to take in as much information as possible and most especially from those that seem to be saying something completely different and those that don't have larger platforms. Consider it all then use observation and logic and very often the pieces start to fit together and one gets closer to the truth.



What I like to tell those that are close to me is I thought I knew something about health and fitness after about 20 years. But it wasn't until I stopped listening to marketers and marketing information and started looking towards those that did not have these large money making platforms that I started to make progress. As a consequence my whole philosophy started to change and now I tell people around me about some of those changes. For example dietary. For the last 15 years I have eaten a dozen eggs a day. For the last year I have eaten 2-3 dozen eggs a day along with other high cholesterol foods just as a starting point in the conversation. My strength, stamina, speed and mental function has never been better. I then ask those around me that are similar in age 54 how do you explain that? How is it possible that you are obese and/or on multiple medications yet I am experiencing robust health by doing exactly the opposite of what you have been conditioned to believe? The only explanation is that there is often more money in telling lies or getting someone to believe something that enriches others regardless of the consequences. So we really have to be careful of what we believe and that goes for anything.



I have never been faster or stronger and this is a recent picture. It is only because of food choices and lifestyle nothing else. No medications, no doctors, none of it for years and years. How do you explain it? My answer is you are being lied to but maybe someone else has a different answer. Consider them all then use observation and logic.



The picture below my own picture is Jerry Lewis before and after steroid medication. It is referred to as "moon face" and not everyone suffers the side effect but some do so yes it is possible.















Great post. Very interesting to hear about your diet rich in eggs and your bodies response..What is your take on Red Meat?

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 02/07/2017 12:47 PM
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topcat
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4myfuture my hens get soyfree feed because I don't want the phytoestrogens in the eggs themselves. The feed is made of other grains and either peas or fish meal as hens need at least 20% protein. So I had a few eggs about a week ago that were from another farm and one of the eggs I bit into tasted like fish and it lingered. The mix on the feed probably wasn't ideal as far as flavor goes.

The point being what the animal eats you eat when you eat anything associated with the animal you just might not see it or taste it but it's in there. So yes beef is an excellent source of nutrition providing the animal eats it's natural diet which is grass. Cows do not eat grain unless you want to make money. Without going into a long detailed explanation it's matter of economics and the problem with that is it changes the makeup of the meat just like that egg example. Instead of the beef being high in omega 3 fatty acids it is now high in omega 6 fatty acids which can be inflammatory plus you lose the beneficial effects of the conjugate linoleic acid from the pastured meat.

Then one needs to understand what heat does to protein so anything overcooked can turn something healthy into something just the opposite. This is where something like beef can get a bad name it all depends on where it's coming from and what is done with it.

Exactly like FUE over the years. The marketers bashed it over and over and over again but they were speaking about themselves not about the product those that were skilled were offering so it became confusing for many and now we have tons of patients having issues with scars. They were simply fooled into believing something without having all the information. Beef is the same...........it all depends. Most importantly you don't want beef that is loaded with estrogen because long term having loads of estrogen in the body is not healthy whether it's from diet, environment or medications.

BTW you can't purchase soy free eggs in the store they would be too expensive and the general consumer simply does not understand the difference. The amount of energy required to explain it all would be too much work then it would need to be repeated over and over and over again. That is basically what marketers do they just keep repeating their message over and over and the public assumes it's true.

In order to become wealthy with food related items it's mostly about shelf life. If a product has shelf life and you can trademark it then you have a better shot at making big money. So yes most are going to believe drinking some powder that has been sitting on the shelf is superior to real food. You get all your aminos, growth factors, and such..............lol............yes I bought into it all too but I have learned through years and years of experience. Wasted a lot of time of course but all part of learning.

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.

Edited: 02/07/2017 at 02:01 PM by topcat
 02/07/2017 08:29 PM
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pidda
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My experience with bloated face:
Minoxidil: YES
Finasteride: Nope
 02/09/2017 02:35 AM
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topcat
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Pidda not everyone will experience side effects short term or long term. The way clinical trials work pharmaceutical companies can bury results they don't want being shown. This of course works in their favor. Shareholders want returns and certainly don't want to be paying for bad results so the pressure is there to produce. As long as there is no evidence or at least a pattern is not evident then no one will be the wiser. If a negative pattern does emerge after approval and the company is forced to provide all the trial results and any of it is damning then it usually ends in removal of the drug and often times a very large lawsuit. Depending on the revenue return sometimes it's worth the risk for the company. For the patients depending on how negative the outcome maybe not so much. It's fairly well know except for maybe the consumer that does not understand how the process works.

When information is purposely buried, a pattern is evident and people are harmed there is usually legal recourse for the victim that results in large judgments. The victim would have to be aware though, for many they just can't trace it back to a medication, etc. Sometimes it's going to depend on the numbers involved. If you are one of the unfortunate few then you might be out of luck because the pattern is just not big enough.

What makes the Internet beneficial is that patients who do suffer side effects can connect with others on a larger scale who might be having a similar experience which makes connecting the dots much easier. You see that happening with some of the hairloss drugs which is actually a good thing. It creates more honesty and in the end it's better for the consumer because more become aware before it might be too late.

As a consumer would you want this information.................probably. Do you want to be any multiple medications as you become older regardless of the affliction? Once again probably not. People die early deaths every day from strokes, heart attacks, cancer, etc and it could very well be due to the medications it just hasn't been connected. Usually as one becomes older and might die most around them are not as alarmed as someone that might be younger. So if no one is alarmed then chances are it will not be investigated.

Now you have that information. Is that bad or good? Is having information a bad thing? Not really it should give one the drive to do more research and determine how true it is and make better decisions after that research.

It doesn't have to be hair loss related for the message to matter. Maybe someone is considering giving their daughter the Gardisil vaccine under the advisement of the doctor. Maybe now they will pause and do more research and maybe that research will lead them to make a different decision but you have to have the information. Maybe it will be one of these hairloss marketers that is helped. It will be their wife, daughter, niece, or grandchild. It's all good and positive we want to help people that should be the goal.

Pidda I just posted another account of a young man being diagnosed with cancer and finding tattoo ink in his lymph nodes. These are regular tattoos not hair tattoos but all the same the ink is inside the node itself......trapped. His mum warned him and she is devastated. This is simply information. Does it harm you or could it be of value when making a decision? Does this represent a pattern? We just don't know so it would be wise to observe over time which is safe sensible advice.

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.

Edited: 02/09/2017 at 05:22 AM by topcat
 02/09/2017 04:12 PM
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aqalp
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Appreciate the thoughtful, informative postings. I admit I spent 8 years ruminating about whether to take the drug or not, as I was scared off from reading all the horror stories, and went from Norwood 1.5 to about NW3 in that time, so I decided I would still give it a try despite the possible risks. I have noticed the thinning on my crown has slowed considerably, so there has been some positive. I haven't had drop in libido(it has actually increased instead), and so far no moobs, so I guess I've been lucky in that regard. The bloated face is something I will continue to watch though if it gets worse.

Edited: 02/09/2017 at 04:31 PM by aqalp
 02/10/2017 03:01 PM
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topcat
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Aqalp you might find out more by signing up at propeciahelp.com

4myfuture if you are wondering what heat does to protein then whey would be a good example. One has to remember cheese manufacturers use to have to pay to have the whey picked up, they couldn't just dump it. Until someone figured out that if they heated it up people would buy it providing the story was good along with plenty of visuals. This is why doctors in ht that recommend the product especially during the healing process are simply clueless. They too are listening to marketers and just don't know any better. I used plenty of eggs during the healing process for the simple fact that cholesterol heals and raw eggs raise glutathione levels but no money in that for marketers.

So if this is true why don't you read about it? Because it doesn't benefit those that are selling it and those that are generating the ad revenue. Here is a very recent excerpt from the Weston Price Foundation an actual non-profit that is not a non-profit setup up as mouthpiece for industries looking to profit. Same applies to red meat the message is going to be determined by who controls it and how they can benefit same as the hairloss industry. This is why you really can't believe these marketers. They make more money by being less than honest.

Do you think you can get the average brainwashed magazine reader to believe this? This is not a slam against anyone I was just as brainwashed when I was younger listening to self professed experts. Same goes for many of the hairloss forums. It becomes very hard to convince anyone of the truth when so many marketers are telling them something different.


The problem with whey is that it eats up concrete, so you can't put it in the sewers. But not to worry; the industry has figured out how to turn this delicate substance into a powder. In a complicated process, the liquid whey - separated from pasteurized milk that goes into most cheese manufacture - is put under pressure and forced through a membrane to separate out the proteins from the smaller molecules - this happens at least twice as micro-filtration and then ultra-filtration. The pressures used vary from 30 to 100 psi. Does this process damage the whey proteins? According to one Internet source, this pressure, although not considered excessive, is enough to change the hydrogen-bonded structure of water and therefore would also disrupt the protein structure.3 But just in case there is any life in the whey proteins after pasteurization and the filtration process, the resulting liquid is forced out a nozzle at 250 degrees C to produce a powder. The certain result is denaturation of the proteins and oxidation of the tiny particles.

Raw liquid whey is a wonderful source of glutathione, the body's master detoxifier. But glutathione does not work after it has been heated. Whey can also be powdered through a freeze-drying process, but that is an expensive procedure, and few brands of whey powder on the market today are processed in this way. In any event, the whey has already come from pasteurized milk, and pasteurization temperatures alone are enough to denature the delicate glutathione.



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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.

Edited: 02/10/2017 at 04:38 PM by topcat
 02/13/2017 02:08 AM
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toppikk
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topcat yes i also do some sprints, about 3 to 4 times a week. It's a pain in the ass and as soon as i start i wish it's over lol, but i really feel good after.
 02/13/2017 12:59 PM
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topcat
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Toppikk it's a very effective exercise and 3-4 times a week is great. The big problem with what really works is that it's difficult to make big money at it. If sprints are so effective and it requires no equipment, no facilities, and very little time how does one make money selling it.............you can't so it's not promoted as much at least in the past.

You see that little blurb about whey protein above it's absolutely true. What really works are real foods but you can't make money from something like an egg so you get what can be marketed. So is it possible that hundreds and hundreds of marketers are making loads and loads of money marketing crap whey protein and no one is saying anything............yes. If you can understand that point thoroughly you can understand the hairloss business too. This is why they think nothing of injecting ink into people's head and no one in the industry is saying boo. How is that possible............lol............. well maybe one the only person I have seen question it was Dr. Woods..........well surprise, surprise, surprise Gomer the same person that 20 years ago was trying to tell everyone about the benefit of FUE over FUT but the marketers would have nothing of it. They would sell what they knew and what was profitable and simply attack him when it was easy.

Now if you can understand this concept through and through then you know that everything most especially medically related needs to be independently researched. The worst sources are those that work in the industry......one either gets it or they don't.

BTW here is the thing with whey. Raw whey that comes from raw milk which I can by from my farmer has huge health benefits but it's not some heated powdered crap that sits in a plastic container for months on end coming from cows fed hormones and corn/soy. But that small farmer he has got something really good and you don't hear about it because people doing good things usually don't surround themselves with marketers. It goes against their principles. You have to have integrity to be doing the right thing so why would someone associate with those that simply do not have it.

Keep doing sprints nobody profits except you.............now how great is that and your motivation should be you don't want to end up in a doctor's office if you can help it. Once you understand it is a system set up for profit first you understand the importance of keeping yourself and your family healthy.

"Suffer the Pain of Discipline or Suffer the Pain of Regret" Jim Rohm

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.

Edited: 02/13/2017 at 01:40 PM by topcat
 02/22/2017 10:25 AM
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topcat
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aqalp below is a quote from an article on Merck. It's important to understand because it's an indication of integrity, a company/person either has it or they do not. So one then must ask themselves do they really want to use any medications from the same company. Can anything they say and do even be trusted regardless of how well they try to present it. This is not a hard concept to understand but many simply dismiss it.

Works exactly the same way with hair transplantation. One would easily be able to observe the same type of behavior amongst many of the marketers over time and it also indicates character. Attacking patients and those that are honest by telling lies, creating and changing stories, etc are all part of the process and very easy to see. Those that do it expose themselves for all to see.................it's always important for those simply researching to stay aware and not fall into a trap.

Your concerns are valid so don't let anyone tell you it is not so. Keep in mind what you are reading below is only because it was caught. One would have to assume most of what goes on is hidden.

Merck made a "hit list" of doctors who criticized Vioxx, according to testimony in a Vioxx class action case in Australia. The list, emailed between Merck employees, contained doctors' names with the labels "neutralise," "neutralised" or "discredit" next to them.

According to The Australian, Merck emails from 1999 showed company execs complaining about doctors who disliked using Vioxx. One email said:
We may need to seek them out and destroy them where they live ...


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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.

Edited: 02/22/2017 at 03:16 PM by topcat
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