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Topic Title: What is in these Dr. Proctor products and can't you just do it yourself?
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Created On: 10/07/2012 01:24 PM
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 10/07/2012 01:24 PM
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Science
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Simply put what is in these product that you can't buy or put together yourself?

I do not want to get into a decade old debate about whether the Dr. is credible or not. I see evidence on both sides, so I dare not mention anything, as I would have to provide all the evidence for both sides and the thread devolves into a he said she said debate and were no closer to growing hair. So I ask people to just speak on this thread about the products ingredients in particular and not the man behind them.

So what ingredients are alleged to be in the product?

From what I have found I will start with the novel

1. SOD's, which are effected by substances like AHK-cu and the like now commercially available.

2. Tempol or Tempo. perhaps PBN? not seen significant research in MPB in particular, I did see something for radiation induced alopecia. http://www.tocris.com/dispprod...d=192913#.UHHBBU1JKuM

3. Minoxidil in a 2 or 3% dose, that is undissolved, so that means that it is according to reports by Bryan on Dr. Proctor at this point, ineffective. However I don't think anyone buys these products today for minoxidil, this may have been the case in the 1980's when 5% wasn't widely available?

4. Any kind of reported mystery ingredients would require studies to have any support to begin with or to be generally considered worthwhile, so if of value it is something already in the toolbox of what you know of.

5. Spiro, easily obtained, although I've read poor reports on S5.



Is that it?

how about this Nano shampoo and conditioner then?

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this is for information purposes I am not a Dr. for hair loss my advice should not be considered medical/expert advice for such. The poster will not be liable for any direct, indirect, consequential, special, exemplary, or other damages arising therefrom.

Edited: 10/07/2012 at 01:38 PM by Science
 10/07/2012 01:53 PM
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Bryan
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Originally posted by: Science

Simply put what is in these product that you can't buy or put together yourself?


There's probably nothing in Proxiphen (or Prox-N) which you can't buy or put together yourself. It's just that Dr. Proctor has never revealed all of the ingredients. Good luck on convincing him to do that!

By the way, NANO is an ingredient that's common to both Proxiphen and Prox-N. Dr. Proctor puts it in both his shampoo and conditioner just as a way to get even more of it available to his patients.
 10/07/2012 02:01 PM
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Science
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I recall NANO being a chemical formula in chemistry or a branch...not the current nano particles

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this is for information purposes I am not a Dr. for hair loss my advice should not be considered medical/expert advice for such. The poster will not be liable for any direct, indirect, consequential, special, exemplary, or other damages arising therefrom.
 10/07/2012 02:04 PM
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Bryan
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I'm not sure what you mean by "chemistry or a branch". NANO is a specific chemical: nicotinic acid n-oxide.
 10/07/2012 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by: Bryan

I'm not sure what you mean by "chemistry or a branch". NANO is a specific chemical: nicotinic acid n-oxide.


so we see if there are any studies on this chemical and hair loss, as I doubt he'd name it for that chemical and not have it in the product.

It would be interesting to find out the properties of this substance reported in topical use to the skin and/or follicle.

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this is for information purposes I am not a Dr. for hair loss my advice should not be considered medical/expert advice for such. The poster will not be liable for any direct, indirect, consequential, special, exemplary, or other damages arising therefrom.
 10/07/2012 02:32 PM
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Science
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edit.

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this is for information purposes I am not a Dr. for hair loss my advice should not be considered medical/expert advice for such. The poster will not be liable for any direct, indirect, consequential, special, exemplary, or other damages arising therefrom.
 10/07/2012 02:40 PM
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Bryan
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Originally posted by: Science

so we see if there are any studies on this chemical and hair loss, as I doubt he'd name it for that chemical and not have it in the product.


I'm still not sure what you mean. Dr. Proctor has used NANO for DECADES; he doesn't need to check "studies" just to see if it's useful against hair loss. He already KNOWS that it's useful against hair loss.
 10/07/2012 03:13 PM
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tmason85
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Bryan do you use his products? I would be interested to hear if anyone has had results from his products.
 10/07/2012 03:23 PM
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Bryan
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Originally posted by: tmason85

Bryan do you use his products? I would be interested to hear if anyone has had results from his products.


I used to use his products, but it's been a few years since I've done that. They definitely worked for me.
 10/07/2012 03:59 PM
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Science
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Originally posted by: Bryan

Originally posted by: Science



so we see if there are any studies on this chemical and hair loss, as I doubt he'd name it for that chemical and not have it in the product.




I'm still not sure what you mean. Dr. Proctor has used NANO for DECADES; he doesn't need to check "studies" just to see if it's useful against hair loss. He already KNOWS that it's useful against hair loss.


I can appreciate clinical experience I wasn't referencing that, I am asking did he get these idea's from somewhere or some literature that caused him to consider them in the first place and is there a body of literature that has developed around these ingredients such as nicotinic acid n-oxide for hair loss over time we can reference objectively?

On searching it and another one of his ingredients, I certainly found his patent, however I didn't find much literature, there were other patents by others as well, and there were others citing his patent, however I haven't checked those out for studies or anything relating to hair loss prevention or growth.

Perhaps these 2 patents of his and the citations referencing them give both the formula for his products and lead one to the literature, I may have time to check it later, rushed right now, will check after my deadline met.

Another ingredient to research literature on is
pyridine-N-Oxide hair

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP0232311A4.html

http://www.google.com/patents?...N-Oxide%20hair&f=false

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this is for information purposes I am not a Dr. for hair loss my advice should not be considered medical/expert advice for such. The poster will not be liable for any direct, indirect, consequential, special, exemplary, or other damages arising therefrom.

Edited: 10/07/2012 at 05:03 PM by Science
 10/07/2012 05:33 PM
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Science
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N-oxidation of pyridine and nicotinic acid n-oxide I checked the first 5 pages for each on googlescholar.com and found nothing with them searched with key term hair excepting many patents.

Perhaps Bryan or someone else may have better luck. I checked those citing his patent, all 54+ and I couldn't believe they were all patents to.
I did not check the other Pyridine-N-Oxide and those citing it yet.

What other ingredients are known in these products of his I may have missed, Bryan?

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this is for information purposes I am not a Dr. for hair loss my advice should not be considered medical/expert advice for such. The poster will not be liable for any direct, indirect, consequential, special, exemplary, or other damages arising therefrom.

Edited: 10/07/2012 at 05:50 PM by Science
 10/08/2012 12:03 AM
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Bryan
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Originally posted by: Science

I can appreciate clinical experience I wasn't referencing that, I am asking did he get these idea's from somewhere or some literature that caused him to consider them in the first place and is there a body of literature that has developed around these ingredients such as nicotinic acid n-oxide for hair loss over time we can reference objectively?


I honestly don't know where he got the ideas for all the various chemicals and drugs he uses in his products. My guess (and that's all it is, just a guess) is that it may vary considerably, from drug to drug. I recall his mentioning occasionally back on alt.baldspot that there's a Japanese patent on the use of NANO to stimulate hair growth, although I really don't know if he got the original idea from the Japanese, or the Japanese got the idea from him. I suppose it's possible that the two of them developed the idea independently.

Certain classes of drugs are probably more obvious: drugs that have SOD activity. Dr. Proctor is famous for using SODs to stimulate hair growth, so anything at all that has SOD activity is probably a red flag to him, like TEMPO/TEMPOL and PBN.
 10/08/2012 12:14 AM
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Bryan
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Originally posted by: Science

What other ingredients are known in these products of his I may have missed, Bryan?


The only other ingredients in Proxiphen that I know about besides the most common and widely-discussed ones (minoxidil, Retin-A, phenytoin, and spironolactone) are NANO, TEMPO/TEMPOL, and PBN (and maybe some kind of copper-peptide, although I'm not sure which specific one). I have no idea what any of the others are. Those are STATE SECRETS!

Edited: 10/08/2012 at 12:27 AM by Bryan
 10/08/2012 09:30 AM
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z99x
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Originally posted by: tmason85

Bryan do you use his products? I would be interested to hear if anyone has had results from his products.



I have had decent results with Proxiphen in Nano (Maintenance with slight regrowth), however, I have only been on his products for 6 months.

Mabe and Duke are 2 other users that have had maintenance sucess using proxiphen.

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Disclaimer - I am not a physician or an expert and my advice should not be considered medical/expert advice. - If you follow my opinions and/or advice you do so at your own risk.
 10/08/2012 11:57 AM
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topcat
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I walked into Dr Proctor's office about 30 years ago in my opinion the products are of very limited value and over those 30 years nothing amazing has been shown by using them.

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Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.
 10/08/2012 12:32 PM
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z99x
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Originally posted by: topcat

I walked into Dr Proctor's office about 30 years ago in my opinion the products are of very limited value and over those 30 years nothing amazing has been shown by using them.


Have you used them topcat?

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Disclaimer - I am not a physician or an expert and my advice should not be considered medical/expert advice. - If you follow my opinions and/or advice you do so at your own risk.
 10/08/2012 02:29 PM
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topcat
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Yes I used Proxiphen when it first came out for my hairline must have been around 1982 or somewhere around there. Don't remember it doing much and over the years I really haven't seen much in the way of any substantial results. Not trying to be negative just an honest review.

I don't think Proctor is doing anything bad but I think it more about making money.

-------------------------
Stay away from doctors who perform mega sessions, have posts deleted, attack posters, sue patients & forum owners, use power drills or robots. I recommend fue with hand punches in the .70-.85 range. I consulted with dozens of clinics over the years and there was a recurring theme regarding FUE among some employees of those other clinics. I was told Bisanga was the man my research told me the same and my experience validated my own research.
 10/08/2012 02:32 PM
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z99x
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Thanks for the feedback. I agree, not much in the way of posted results. I think that is mainly because finasteride and minox work better for a fraction of the cost of Proxiphen. In fact, if Fin didnt give me sides I am sure I would have never ventured down the Proxiphen route.

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Disclaimer - I am not a physician or an expert and my advice should not be considered medical/expert advice. - If you follow my opinions and/or advice you do so at your own risk.
 10/08/2012 06:45 PM
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Science
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Originally posted by: topcat

Yes I used Proxiphen when it first came out for my hairline must have been around 1982 or somewhere around there. Don't remember it doing much and over the years I really haven't seen much in the way of any substantial results. Not trying to be negative just an honest review.



I don't think Proctor is doing anything bad but I think it more about making money.


So how long starting from 1982 onward did you use his products and which ones and how much and often and how consistent?

Did you see any results?
Have the products ingredients changed since then and how?
To say you haven't seen any substantial results what are you basing that on exactly?
You sound like you have first hand experience, so what is your impression of this man and do you think what he alleges is in the product is in it, and why do you think so?

Please take the questions one by one, I am getting really specific because you sound like one of the best witnesses since you went in person in 82 and you have used and monitored the use of others over that time, so looking forward to your being able to share much, trust me many will read it all no matter how long.

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this is for information purposes I am not a Dr. for hair loss my advice should not be considered medical/expert advice for such. The poster will not be liable for any direct, indirect, consequential, special, exemplary, or other damages arising therefrom.
 10/08/2012 06:49 PM
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Science
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Originally posted by: topcat

Yes I used Proxiphen when it first came out for my hairline must have been around 1982 or somewhere around there. Don't remember it doing much and over the years I really haven't seen much in the way of any substantial results. Not trying to be negative just an honest review.



I don't think Proctor is doing anything bad but I think it more about making money.


what do you think the ingredients are in these that you could add to in addition to what Bryan shared?

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this is for information purposes I am not a Dr. for hair loss my advice should not be considered medical/expert advice for such. The poster will not be liable for any direct, indirect, consequential, special, exemplary, or other damages arising therefrom.
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