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Topic Title: Black Tea VS. Propecia
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Created On: 07/30/2009 05:29 PM
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 07/30/2009 05:29 PM
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Pick34
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Hey, was checking out Hairlosstalk and found this, pretty interesting stuff, not sure if it's been posted about.




Propecia Reduces DHT by 71% Black Tea Reduces DHT by 72%




Black Tea consumption, according to this study done on mice at Harvard University lowered DHT levels by 72% and raised testosterone by 35%. Finasteride, (Propecia/Proscar) reduces DHT levels in both male humans and rats by 70%.

Nutrition and Cancer

Soy Phytochemicals and Tea Bioactive Components Synergistically Inhibit Androgen-Sensitive Human Prostate Tumors in Mice

Nutrition/Metabolism Laboratory, Department of Surgery, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA


ABSTRACT

Although high doses of single bioactive agents may have potent anticancer effects, the chemopreventive properties of the Asian diet may result from interactions among several components that potentiate the activities of any single constituent. In Asia, where intake of soy products and tea consumption are very high, aggressive prostate cancer is significantly less prevalent in Asian men. The objective of the present study was to identify possible synergistic effects between soy and tea components on prostate tumor progression in a mouse model of orthotopic androgen-sensitive human prostate cancer. Soy phytochemical concentrate (SPC), black tea and green tea were compared with respect to tumorigenicity rate, primary tumor growth, tumor proliferation index and microvessel density, serum androgen level and metastases to lymph nodes. SPC, black tea and green tea significantly reduced tumorigenicity. SPC and black tea also significantly reduced final tumor weights. Green tea did not reduce final tumor weight, although it tended to elevate (P = 0.14) the serum dihydrotestosterone (DHT) concentration. The combination of SPC and black tea synergistically inhibited prostate tumorigenicity, final tumor weight and metastases to lymph nodes in vivo. The combination of SPC and green tea synergistically inhibited final tumor weight and metastasis and significantly reduced serum concentrations of both testosterone and DHT in vivo. Inhibition of tumor progression was associated with reduced tumor cell proliferation and tumor angiogenesis. This study suggests that further research is warranted to study the role of soy and tea combination as effective nutritional regimens in prostate cancer prevention.

Although the DHT lowering effect of Black Tea `was not mentioned in the abstract, we obtained and reviewed the entire study including this revealing snippet:


Combined effects of soy phytochemicals and tea on serum testosterone and DHT concentrations.

"Mice treated with black tea (via standard,steeped beverage)tended to have a greater serum testosterone concentration (34.4%, P = 0.50) and had a 72% lower DHT concentration than controls (P < 0.05), suggesting that black tea may contain components that inhibit the activity of 5 -reductase, an enzyme that converts testosterone to the more bioactive DHT."

This study also showed that the consumption of Green Tea as a beverage combined with Soy Isoflavone Concentrate significantly reduced DHT levels, and to some degree testosterone. Curiously it was found that the singular consumption of Green Tea raised both testosterone and DHT levels.

The implications of potential benefits to humans with Androgenetic Alopecia are significant.

It would appear reasonable based upon these findings that exclusive consumption of Black Tea or Black Tea Extract (Theaflavins) would likely reduce serum DHT to the same level as Propecia, and that the concurrent consumption of Soy Isoflavones or Soy Isoflavones with Green Tea would produce an additive effect.

Human studies done thus far on Soy and its' effects on reproductive hormones in men in males indicate no apparent negative effect. It has also been established that Green Tea to some degree, suppresses androgen receptor signaling and inhibits both 5 alpha reductase isozymes. Green Tea and Grape Seed Extracts have been successfully combined with Taurine by L'Oreal to stop hair loss and promote hair growth. Based on this study however, some may feel that Green Tea should only be consumed with Soy. Given Green Tea's multitude of anti-androgenic actions and the increase in SHBG (low levels of SHBG are associated with male pattern hair loss) that Green tea consumption causes, it is our position that Green Tea, even if singularly consumed, will likely benefit those with hair loss.

It is well established that the incidence of male and female pattern balding in the rural Orient is a small fraction of what it is here in the United States, and that the incidence of Androgenetic Alopecia among Asians who live in the U.S. is much higher than those living in the Orient. Soy based foods, a dietary staple, and the regular beverage consumption of Green and Black Teas factor significantly, and are perhaps causative, in this phenomenon.

The sexual side effects, including oft occurring Gynocomastia,(male breast enlargement), and the more ominous potential neurological side effects associated with finasteride (Propecia/Proscar), uncovered in the last few years, seem to make it less of a viable option. This compelling in vivo study provides direct evidence that blood levels of DHT can be reduced to a level equivalent to that of Propecia, in a natural, healthy, more cost effective way.

Exclusive consumption of strongly brewed Black Tea, as done by rats in this study to obtain a decrease in DHT and increase in Testosterone would not be practical for humans. Black Tea Extracts (Theaflavins) are available and contain Black Tea constituents at concentrations well above what would be obtainable via oral consumption.


Theaflavin Standardized Extract


An increasing number of scientists recognize the critical need to protect the arterial wall against low-density lipoprotein (LDL) oxidation and inflammatory insults. Research has shown that unique extracts present in black tea called theaflavins can have multiple applications for arterial health.

Theaflavin Standardized Extract contains a number of beneficial flavonoids found naturally in tea leaves that help support levels of cholesterol that are already within the normal range.

Theaflavins have been shown in human studies to protect against LDL oxidation and favorably affect endothelial function, thus helping to maintain healthy circulation.

Scientists have also found that black tea flavonoids possess strong antioxidant properties, which can help mitigate oxidative damage to cells and tissues from free radicals. In addition, theaflavins have been found to be helpful in down-regulating key inflammatory mediators, (several of which factor significantly into hormone related hair loss) in the body, thus helping to preserve cellular integrity.
 07/30/2009 07:21 PM
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TooYoungToBeBald
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Interesting. These kinds of treatments seem like the future for finding new treatments for hair loss. Thanks for the information!
 07/30/2009 09:03 PM
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Pick34
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Screw it, I'll guinea pig it since I'm unwilling to try fin. I already drink a shit load of tea anyway (But I'm sure nowhere near the amount to be beneficial) I'll see if I get any sides, and at the first sign of them I'm going to stop.

I think I'm going to order from here, if anyone knows of a better place let me know. I'll wait to order until or if this thread gets going.

http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Su...ndardized-Extract.html
 07/30/2009 11:27 PM
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Twister
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Pick, wont this cause sides too ?

Its not the Finasteride that causes the sides, it what it does that causes sides

But let me know how you get on dude

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 07/30/2009 11:38 PM
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Jocko59
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Yes, really. If anyone tries those capsules, such as Pick, let us know any results. I might go in for that too if it seems promising.
 07/30/2009 11:50 PM
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Calvin 2.0
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I see nothing about inhibition of type#2 versus type#1 DHT here. Finasteride targets just the type#2 because it's the most harmful for hair. Type#1 is also present in the brain.

As for sides, I don't see it being any better than Fin. Potentially even a bit worse because of type #1/2 thing.

 07/31/2009 05:00 AM
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underpressure
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the question is - how much is necessary to see any results positive or negative ?
 07/31/2009 05:05 AM
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underpressure
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pick - if you're not a member at that site, it's $18 for 30 caps

iherb has the same brand for $13.50

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 07/31/2009 07:00 AM
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Smitty109
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Originally posted by: Pick34

Screw it, I'll guinea pig it since I'm unwilling to try fin. I already drink a shit load of tea anyway (But I'm sure nowhere near the amount to be beneficial) I'll see if I get any sides, and at the first sign of them I'm going to stop.



I think I'm going to order from here, if anyone knows of a better place let me know. I'll wait to order until or if this thread gets going.



http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Su...ndardized-Extract.html



If these statistics are true..then i think this is an excellent way to eliminate DHT. You guys have to understand that finasteride...does nothing in regard to increasing large amounts of T levels (maybe some degree of testosterone synthesis, yeah bryan), But not to the degree of 35%

What am i getting at here..more testosterone = more 5AR production. So there is a balance

Look at the ratio 72%/ 35%...Finasteride would prob be like 71%/ 5% hince why sides COULD BE more prevelant.

I really don't think this is going to give you sides to any degree even if you took 600mg's a day


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Hairloss will be cured in 5 years

Edited: 07/31/2009 at 07:21 AM by Smitty109
 07/31/2009 07:33 AM
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Smitty109
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Actually with further research, I came across this...scratch that from the reg.

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/fo...tid=10&threadid=80751

Read the post by beach man regarding black / green tea consumption

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 07/31/2009 08:31 AM
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Pick34
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Twister,

I don't know if will cause sides, more than likely would, which at the first sign I'm going to stop. I already drink alot of black tea anyway, up to five giant cups a day, which is probably more like ten actual cups. I used to drink green but have been on a black kick for the last couple of months...no sides thus far.

Now what are the sides I'm to look for that are associated with fin?

1.) Decrease in libido
2.) Gyno
3.) somone made a thread on here about squishy balls?


What are the positives?

1.) Decreased shed?
2.) thicker regrowth?
 07/31/2009 08:47 AM
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Balance
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I have read this study before, and I would like to point out that the black tea they used is not just any old black tea, it's Chinese Keemun black tea. (It's mentioned under 'material and methods' http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/133/2/516.pdf )

I'm not sure what difference this makes but I'd say it's possible that Keemun possibly contains something with other regular black teas might not.

Obviously if this worked it would be superb.

Edited: 07/31/2009 at 08:55 AM by Balance
 07/31/2009 08:51 AM
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Pick34
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Here's the original thread from Hairlosstalk. The second entry down from Toivenon, claims that he has seen this study before, dropped fin, has been taking a black tea supplement which has maintained his hair as fin did with no sides.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/in...topic.php?f=32&t=54287
 07/31/2009 08:54 AM
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Pick34
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Originally posted by: underpressure

the question is - how much is necessary to see any results positive or negative ?


That's a very good question, Without doubling checking I believe that the black tea supplement from Life extension is 350 mg. Too much? Too little?
 07/31/2009 08:56 AM
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JohnDavid45
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Pick, I'm a bit of a health enthusiast (aside from a few fetching habits). I've always avoided any herbal pill that comes from leaf product, because the potency of leaves, unlike roots, is highly diminished when pulverized (i.e., turned into pill form).

Like everybody else, I'm eager to hear more about the possible benefits of black tea in hair loss treatment, but in order for your experiment to work, I'd think you'll need whole black leaves.

-------------------------
-5% Spiro Cream (daily)
-Prox-N (daily)
-5% Minox with phen (daily)
-NANO Shampoo (3/weekly)
-Nizoral (3/weekly)
-Ginger Scalp Care Shampoo [Piroctone Olamine] (1/weekly)
 07/31/2009 08:59 AM
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Balance
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The Keemun thing is mentioned under 'material and methods' in the actual study,

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/133/2/516.pdf

I'm not sure if there's any significance to the fact it's Keemun tea but it's a higher quality grade of tea.

The question is, is it theaflavins which are causing the reduction of DHT or something else.

Also they boiled the tea leaves twice for 10 minutes, I'm not whether this has any significance either.

The study also mentions a combination of soy protein concentrate and green tea reduces DHT but Green tea on its own sky-rockets it.

Edited: 07/31/2009 at 09:09 AM by Balance
 07/31/2009 09:59 AM
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Pick34
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It said in the study that It was Keemu Tea and that it was fifteen grams worth.
 07/31/2009 10:03 AM
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Pick34
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Originally posted by: JohnDavid45

Pick, I'm a bit of a health enthusiast (aside from a few fetching habits). I've always avoided any herbal pill that comes from leaf product, because the potency of leaves, unlike roots, is highly diminished when pulverized (i.e., turned into pill form).



Like everybody else, I'm eager to hear more about the possible benefits of black tea in hair loss treatment, but in order for your experiment to work, I'd think you'll need whole black leaves.


Do they make tea root supplements? Where is the best place to get black tea leaves, in the study it said that they bought them at a supermarket, the company that made them was from Shanghi. It was fifteen grams worth of black tea leaves that they boiled twice at 100 degrees Celsius. That would be a powerful extract.

If what you say is true about leaves loosing their potency when turning into pills I'm starting to believe that this would be the way to go, would it not?
 07/31/2009 11:10 AM
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JohnDavid45
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Pick,

I'm not sure if tea roots have the same potency as the leaves. Some plants do... some don't. I buy all my tea leaves at Whole Foods or Central Market. I live in Texas, but you can find whole leaf teas at most organic grocery stores or specialty shops.

-------------------------
-5% Spiro Cream (daily)
-Prox-N (daily)
-5% Minox with phen (daily)
-NANO Shampoo (3/weekly)
-Nizoral (3/weekly)
-Ginger Scalp Care Shampoo [Piroctone Olamine] (1/weekly)
 07/31/2009 01:03 PM
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Balance
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Originally posted by: Pick34

Do they make tea root supplements? Where is the best place to get black tea leaves, in the study it said that they bought them at a supermarket, the company that made them was from Shanghi. It was fifteen grams worth of black tea leaves that they boiled twice at 100 degrees Celsius. That would be a powerful extract.

If what you say is true about leaves loosing their potency when turning into pills I'm starting to believe that this would be the way to go, would it not?


I looked for that Shanghai brand tea online, the only place that I could find in the West where it is sold was in NYC, but you can buy top quality keemun tea leaves on amazon.com which would probably do the job.

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