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Topic Title: NATURAL DHT BLOCKERS AND SIDE EFFECTS
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Created On: 07/07/2007 11:40 PM
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 07/07/2007 11:40 PM
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truffy
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I have a question that I hope you or someone else can answer for me...

On numerous websites, zinc, B6, and azelaic acid are described as DHT-blockers. Some of the other DHT-blockers advertised are flaxseed oil and saw palmetto. Many of the websites that sell products containing zinc, B6, or azelaic acid site the following study:

Title
Inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activity in human skin by zinc and azelaic acid.
Author
Stamatiadis D; Bulteau-Portois MC; Mowszowicz I
Address
Laboratoire de Biochimie B, Hôpital Necker-Enfants-Malades, Paris, France.
Source
Br J Dermatol, 119: 5, 1988 Nov, 627-32

The study seems to imply that zinc, B6, and azelaic acid can, in small doses, inhibit DHT conversion by as much as 90%. Although this was an “in vitro” study so the conclusions need to be taken with a grain of salt, I suppose...anyway, let me get to my point.

All of the websites that sell hair-loss products with such “natural DHT-blocking ingredients” claim that there are “no side effects associated with these “all-natural ingredients.” I have a problem believing that claim….

There are side effects associated with taking Propecia, correct? If I understand things correctly – taking Propecia lowers DHT levels. Lower DHT means a lower estrogen/androgen ratio (which means that fat won’t be burned as efficiently - you could even develop a fat in the chest area). Lower DHT means a decreased sex drive and diminished sexual performance. Lower DHT means less of an ability to create muscle...etc. etc.

If all of that is correct, then are these websites that claim that there are no side effects associated with herbal DHT-bockers being untruthful, or am I missing something? Doesn’t the fact that these herbal supplements lower DHT mean that you will suffer all of the side effects associated with having low DHT levels?
 07/08/2007 04:38 AM
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cpio_
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What you are saying here, is a very common misunderstanding .. The sides from propecia etc. does not come from lowering dht, but because the
drug also interacts with other hormonal aspects, that is why lower libidio, breast tenderness etc. Saw palmetto and other herbal supplement
also lowers dht, but only does that, that is why they have no sides.
 07/08/2007 05:39 AM
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g'day
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Saw Palmetto CAN cause sides.

I got terrible side effects from it.

Brilliant for the hair though.
 07/08/2007 06:58 AM
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Alex905
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g'day, when you say "brilliant for the hair though" what exactly do you mean, and how much were you taking per day?
 07/08/2007 07:11 AM
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truffy
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ok i see..but a scientifical study in Paris shows that there are side effects...to a certain extent.I still have dandruff though..what would you advice for dandruff as herbal pill and all natural treatment?
 07/08/2007 07:46 AM
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calvinmd
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Everything I've been able to read/hear/experiment on all these subjects has convinced me that the issue really is simple. We'd all love for there to be some way to get the hair growth without the sideFXs, but there really isn't any way. They're both the result of the same change in your body.

lower DHT = helps the hair

lower DHT = increased side effects


Finasteride dosages, switching to Dutasteride, "herbal" this & that, Saw Palmetto . . . you can dig into that stuff all day but the end result is the same. Better hair & increased side effects go hand-in-hand.

Oh yeah, some people certainly get the side effects worse than others when their DHT is lowered. But that's the only difference. Doesn't matter WHICH substance they use to lower it, the point is that some people find a lowered DHT#2 level more tolerable than others. Taken on person at a time, the differences in sideFX are still directly correlated to how much hair any given substance did or did not grow on them.


Saw palmetto?
It seems to be better at targeting just the prostate tissue specifically. Less hair growth AND less sides. Or, on a few people, still lots of hair growth & lots of sides.
(Look at what G'day said above . . . notice that he said SP gave him great hair results AND gave him bad sides.)

 07/08/2007 07:52 AM
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Canada
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Thats true Calvinmd, when my hair was at an all time high (regrowth on temples!), I had zero sex drive.
 07/08/2007 08:09 AM
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truffy
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apparently saw palmetto can affect your sex drive...
 07/08/2007 12:16 PM
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blockhead
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I hadn't heard that flaxseed oil was a DHT blocker. I've been taking it for about two months for dry eyes and improved mental function. Can flaxseed oil block DHT and, if so, stop hairloss?
 07/08/2007 12:22 PM
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cpio_
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Quote

Originally posted by: truffy
ok i see..but a scientifical study in Paris shows that there are side effects...to a certain extent.I still have dandruff though..what would you advice for dandruff as herbal pill and all natural treatment?


Can you give a link to that study?

I recommend saw palmetto and nettle root for internals, and Thymuskin as topical.
 07/08/2007 12:33 PM
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Farrel
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Quote

Originally posted by: cpio_
What you are saying here, is a very common misunderstanding .. The sides from propecia etc. does not come from lowering dht, but because the drug also interacts with other hormonal aspects, that is why lower libidio, breast tenderness etc. Saw palmetto and other herbal supplement also lowers dht, but only does that, that is why they have no sides.


Thats not correct at all. Finasteride simply inhibits the enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT. It does not interact directly with any hormone. In fact its so specific it only affects type 2 of the 5AR enzyme and inhibits very little type 1.

Whatever effects (and side effects) that result from taking it are soley because of the changes in the hormones of the body and not from the drug itself. These same changes can occur anytime you alter your bodies hormones whether its by a drug or a natural compound.


-------------------------
Disclaimer - I am not a physician or an expert and my advice should not be considered medical/expert advice. - If you follow my opinions and/or advice you do so at your own risk.
 07/08/2007 02:21 PM
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truffy
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 07/08/2007 03:28 PM
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Farrel
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Many people seem to assume natural products don't have any negative effect on the body just because they are found in nature. This is totally false and easily proven so. Here is the perfect way to test this.

Take a baseball bat thats made out of natural wood and an aluminum bat made in a factory. Give them both to a friend and ask them to wack you over the head with each bat. Then check and see if the natural wood bat caused no damage to your head compared to the aluminum bat

-------------------------
Disclaimer - I am not a physician or an expert and my advice should not be considered medical/expert advice. - If you follow my opinions and/or advice you do so at your own risk.
 07/08/2007 03:32 PM
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joe_561
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Cyanide is a substance found in nature. I wouldn't recommend eating much of it.

 07/08/2007 03:37 PM
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Canada
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That is so true Farrel, I don't understand why so many people think natural is safer. Saw Palmetto really destroyed my sex drive and it was perfect after 2 years of Fin. Immortal Hair likes to talk how his regimen is side effect free lol, damn Lignans gave me gyno.
 07/08/2007 03:42 PM
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Farrel
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Lets also not forget that a woman recently died from drinking too much water. Even things that are perfectly healthy under normal circumstances can still kill you if taken in excess. In fact some people have even died just from eating a little bit of peanut butter or products with trace amounts of peanuts.

-------------------------
Disclaimer - I am not a physician or an expert and my advice should not be considered medical/expert advice. - If you follow my opinions and/or advice you do so at your own risk.
 07/08/2007 05:56 PM
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truffy
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i hope for you that you got back to what you were before.....i mean i hope your sex drive wasnt destroyed for ever
 07/08/2007 10:04 PM
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Mr Frosty
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I've been on these naturals for years, and yes they can cause side effects.
 07/08/2007 11:06 PM
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blockhead
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Quote

Originally posted by: Mr Frosty
I've been on these naturals for years, and yes they can cause side effects.


How do you feel the fish oil and flaxseed oil work as far as hair loss?
 07/08/2007 11:20 PM
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blockhead
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Edited: 07/08/2007 at 11:39 PM by blockhead
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