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Topic Title: cols Innovate/T-Flavanone FAQ
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Created On: 02/09/2004 12:48 PM
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 02/09/2004 12:48 PM
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chrome
Accomplished Poster

Posts: 2885
Joined: 01/11/2004

This is compiled as an FAQ to try and avoid repeating the usual Innovate/T-Flavanone questions such as:

1.....Why 6-BAP (Both Lions Innovate and Lipoxidils 6-BAP)
2.....Why Lion's Innovate ?
3.....Where can i buy Innovate ?
4.....Why T-Flavanone (Success Flavacyte from Kao Corp) ?
5.....Where to buy T-Flavanone (Success Flavacyte) ?
6.....Innovate Instructions
7.....T-Flavanone instructions
8.....cols Innovate/T-Flavanone 90 days worth of updates so far

Hope this helps, cheers,col (chrome)

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This is an excellent summary from a poster called "Bug". He started all the 6-BAP talk.

Everything can be summed up in three words: Bone Morphogenetic Proteins ( BMP-2, BMP-7 etc)

For a slightly longer yet hopefully concise summary:

BMPs GROW HAIR

Says Who ?
--- Elaine Fuchs
--- http://www.hhmi.org/news/fuchs2.html

--- OsteoScreen/Dr Mundy
--- http://news.mysanantonio.com/story.cfm?xla=saen&xlb=110&xlc=1013894

--- Lion Corp/Tokushima University
--- http://www.asahi.com/english/business/K2003061800557.html


So how do we stimulate BMPs?
--- Proteasome inhibitors(PSI, MG-132, etc)
--- 6-benzylaminopurine(6-BA)
--- Statins (Osteopure(red yeast rice strain)) note: much weaker than PSI


Are there patents that use these substances to stimulate BMPs and grow hair?
--- 6-Benzylaminopurine ---
--- http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5,656,264.WKU.&OS=PN/5,656,264&RS=PN/5,656,264

--- Proteasome inhibitors ---
--- http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=hair.AB.&s2=proteasome.AB.&OS=ABST/hair+AND+ABST/proteasome&RS=ABST/hair+AND+ABST/proteasome

--- http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/search-adv.htm&r=5&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=ptxt&S1=osteoscreen&OS=osteoscreen&RS=osteoscreen


Where can I buy this stuff?
--- 6-ba
--- http://www.phytotechlab.com/getItem.html?grpId=B800

--- Proteasome inhibitors
--- http://www.pepnet.com/proteasome.html

--- Osteopure
--- http://www.osteopure.com


What is 6-ba soluable in?
--- 40mg/ml 2 M NaOH, 1mg/ml water, 5mg/ml ethanol, DMSO
--- http://www.novagen.com/docs/PDS/200241-000.pdf


What concentration should I make?
--- The part of the 6-BA patent that uses human trialists uses a 0.5% solution. Which is also the maximum solution you can make in pure ethanol.


Why all the excitement now?
--- Three completely independent groups(and probably more) all implicating BMPs in hair growth within the last few months.


The 6-BA patent is old. Why is it newsworthy only now?
--- The patent didnt implicate BMPs. Lion Corp/Tokushima University only recently discovered 6-ba stimulated BMPs

'MartinB' is a trialist for the OsteoScreen OSH101 product which is cool!


bug

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Why Lion's Innovate ?

16 Jun 03:

Japanese company "Lion" release new type of hair-loss treatment using 6-BAP (6-benzyl aminopurine):
http://www.lion.co.jp/en/press/html/2003024f.htm

6-BAP stimulates "bone morphogenetic protein (BMP) and ephrin" to produce a dual effect of increasing hair growth signals AND reducing hair loss signals !

Here are the Lion references from the press release:

Hair Cycle and Androgenic Alopecia
http://www.lion.co.jp/en/press/pdf/pre24-01.pdf

Functions of BMP and EPHRIN on Hair Follicles
http://www.lion.co.jp/en/press/pdf/pre24-03.pdf

Changes in Gene Expression in bald area of AGA
http://www.lion.co.jp/en/press/pdf/pre24-02.pdf

Inhibition of Signal for Hair Loss by 6-benzylaminopurine
http://www.lion.co.jp/en/press/pdf/pre24-05.pdf

Induction of Signal for Hair Growth by 6-benzylaminopurine
http://www.lion.co.jp/en/press/pdf/pre24-04.pdf

Scheme of Effects of 6-benzylaminopurine
http://www.lion.co.jp/en/press/pdf/pre24-06.pdf

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WHERE CAN I BUY INNOVATE ?

You can buy it from a Japanese company called www.kurogrow.com at:

http://www.kurogrow.com/innovate_eng.html

They are absolutely superb and have amazingly quick delivery times.


Also available from: www.lipoxidil.com.
The difference between Lions Innovate and Lipoxidils 6-BAP is that they say they have removed most of the alcohol and removed the Pentadecan and made it Liposomal for better penetration.

This looks very good,especially for people who have problems with the alcohol content or don't want their hair to dry out as much as it does using Lion's Innovate (and it most certainly does dry out!).

10-17-2003

"Finally both 6-BAP versions will be available as liposomal preparations.After weeks of research we have found a way to encapsulate Benzylaminopurine and eliminate most of the alcohol.The new product is simular to "thick" water and easy to use. We know that a lot of customers use own preparations which are often dissolved in alcohol.But especially isopropyl alcohol is unhealthy with potential side effects if used for a long period.A problem we already mentioned one year ago with Eucapil.Our 6-BAP contains no Pentadecan which causes oilyness and after 20 years of use in European products was found useless.The European manufacturer of PDG Henkel has discontinued Pentadecan for that reason. Also available starting today is a nearly glycol-free 5 % Minoxidil lotion which can be mixed with the 6-BAP if desired.Further it is possible to mix 6-BAP with our t-Flavanone solution."

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Why T-Flavanone (Success Flavacyte from Kao Corp) ?

22 Jan 03:

Japanese company Kao Corp. release "Success Flavacyte" containing "T-Flavanone":
http://www.kao.co.jp/e/corp_e/pressreleases/2003/n20030122_02.html

"Prevents hair loss and promotes hair growth"

"The new active ingredient t-flavanone developed by Kao, promotes multiplication of cells in the hair bulb to make the hair bulb larger and the hair thicker and longer for maximum prevention of hair loss. In this way, the health of the hair growth cycle is enhanced."

Also, this study shows that T-Flavanone reduces TGF Beta production:

P-11 MECHANISM OF HAIR GROWTH PROMOTING BY -3, 4’-DIMETYL-3-HYDROXYFLAVANONE

M. Sasajima, M. Hotta, Y. Takema Biological Science Laboratories, Kao Corporation, Tochigi, Japan.

Trans-3, 4’-dimethyl-3-hydroxyflavanone (t-flavanone), is a novel hair growth promoter that improves male pattern baldness. In order to clarify the cellular basis of the efficacy, we have here examined the effect of t-flavanone on TGFbeta production. TGF-beta is a critical growth factor in hair growth that has a high activity to induce catagen in hair cycle. We found that t-flavanone significantly decreased the amount of active TGF-beta2, but not the total amount of TGF-beta2, in the co-culture of human keratinocyte (KC)/human dermal papilla cell (DPC). It was considered that KC activates latent TGF-beta2 secreted by DPC in the co-culture of KC/DPC, so we studied the effect of t-flavnone on TGF-beta activating potential of KC. We obtained the fraction rich in latent TGF-beta2 of conditioned medium from DPC, and added this fraction to KC whether treated with t-flavanone or non-treated. It was found that t-flavanone downregulated TGF-beta activating potential of KC. In this study we revealed that t-flavanone suppressed the TGF-beta activation cascade of KC and then decreased active TGF-beta2 in the co-culture of KC/DPC. These results suggest that t-flavanone promoted hair growth by controlling the TGF-beta signal transduction in hair follicles.

http://www.ehrs.org/conferenceabstracts/2003barcelona/researchabstracts/P-11-sasajima.htm



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Where to buy T-Flavanone (Success Flavacyte) ?

1.....www.kurogrow.com
Prices at 29 Nov 03

Flavacyte 145gr (160mL) including shipping via EMS(Express Mail Service).
1 bottle 6,800 yen.
2 bottles 12,200 yen.
3 bottles 17,600 yen.
4 bottles 23,000 yen.

contact them for latest prices at:
nagai@kurogrow.com
manatee@sannet.ne.jp
www.kurogrow.com



2.....http://www.vitaminox.com

3.....www.lipoxidil.com

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Innovate Instructions

Lion Mouhatsuryoku INNOVATE

-Method of Application:
Apply little amount by little starting from the vertex
of your scalp to the whole affected area. Then massage
well. Be careful not to get it in your eyes when you
apply on your hairline. Drop some on your palm and rub
it into the hairline with your finger tips.

-How to Get Better Results:
Wash your hair daily and apply after washing to get a
better result. It is recommended to keep your scalp
clean before applying.

Apply once or twice daily. You will get better results
if you apply appropriate amount daily rather than
applying too much at a time.

Be careful not to hurt your scalp by scratching with
your finger nails when massaging. Relax, take time and
massage your scalp gently like kneading it with your
finger tips, not nails.

Proteins, vitamins and minerals are important for
nourishing your hair. Have well balanced meals.

Cell division is said to be the most active around 9
p.m. So it is also the most important time for your
hair growth. Relax and have a good sleep.

-Warnings and Precautions:
Do not use Innovate when you have bruises, eczema or
boils on your scalp or fingers.

Consult your doctor if you have been allergic to
medicines or cosmetics before.

Discontinue use of Innovate if you are too sensitive to
alcohol or you cough when applying or you feel you are
having much shedding.

Discontinue use of Innovate and consult your doctor if
you have a rash, redness, itching, eczema, swelling on
your scalp or severe shedding.

Innovate may discolor your plastic comb or frame of
the glasses. Wipe it out after use.

Keep Innovate from your eyes or face.
Do not rub your eyes or face with your fingers wet with
Innovate. If you should accidentally get some in your
eyes or on your face, flush the area quickly and
thoroughly with water.

Do not use Innovate if you are breast feeding.
Women can also use Innovate.

-Storage:
Keep out of reach of children.
Keep out of the direct sunlight, and too high or too low
a temperature.

-Active Ingredients:
Cytopurine (6-benzyl aminopurine)
Glyceryl pentadecanoate (PDG)
Vitamin E derivatives


Non perfume
Flammable

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

T-Flavanone instructions"

Success Flavacyte (T-Flavanone) instructions

Topical Solution
Non perfume
Pulse Jet Spray

-Active Ingredients:
t-Flavanone, L-menthol

-Purpose of Medication:
Prevent shedding, Stimulate hair growth, Prevent dandruff
and itching

-Usage:
Do not shake before using.
Use in an upright position.
Push the nozzle about 2 seconds (2grs) if you are
applying to the whole scalp and then massage with your
finger tips.
Apply once or twice daily.


-Caution:
Do not use if you have eczema or scalp inflammation.
Do not apply near the eyelids.
Keep out of the reach of children

Do not use near the flame or fire.
Do not use too much in the room where there is fire.
Keep in the temperature below 40 degrees Celsius.
Do not put in fire.
Make sure that it is empty before throwing away.


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Innovate/T-Flavanone - Day 10
In response to Reply # 6


03 Nov 03
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=8&topic_id=14687&mesg_id=14709&page=

have been on Lions Innovate + T-Flavanone for about 10 days now.

obviously far too early to post any growth stories.

all i can say is they are both easy to apply and ,as neither leave your hair greasy, can be applied before work etc without fear of being detected.

i have read of some side effects such as breathlessness but have not had this. However, i have definately had one side effect. I have a constant "sick" feeling at the back of my throat. I have to eat biscuits regularly to try and offset it. I know its weird, but it ONLY started since beginning this combo.

col

ps i HAVE been getting some growth in the very hard to treat frontal area after using MGF plus, 5% spiro, Lipozyt , xenna 183 anti dht shampoo combo. I have been applying this EVERY day since end of July. I have only used it in one very difficult to treat area. the front of my scalp,in an area about 1 inch square. There are DEFINATELY new hairs appearing. they are very fine (but terminal!) hairs about 5 mm long. I will keep using this combo in this area, but use the innovate + t-flavanone all along my hair-line so wwill be able to tell which is working.

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Innovate/T-Flavanone - Day 15

08 Nov 03
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=14957&mode=full

2 weeks on innovate/t-flavanone.

easy to apply,very dry.

huge shedding as well !

hair has gone very dry/brittle. i only apply it to my hair-line which is now embarrassingly bad and shows my previous HT work. Very unhappy/depressed about it. Its shedding far worse than when on Duta.

just have to keep trying and hope this shedding is a good sign.

also notice 2 side effects.

1.....I seem to get short of breath for about 30 mins after applying the Innovate. This means there must be systemic absorption. But it also means that it MUST be passing the follicles themselves to get into the bloodstream...which is good. But what are the systemic side effects going to be ? the $64,000 question !

2.....I have an almost constant "sick" feeling at the back of my throat. Need to eat biscuits quite regularly to try and get rid of it. I even feel "sick" while writing this !

Yes, i know, get off the stuff...but i'm pretty desperate and hope the side effects subside soon.

:0(

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Innovate/T-Flavanone - Day 19

12 Nov 03
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=15255&mode=full

exactly the same. 2 - 3 weeks. incredible shedding. hair-line looks the worst ever. like you, i am hoping this is good news as my hair has NEVER shed this quick/bad before.

fingers crossed.

col

ps still find i am short of breath for about 30 - 60 mins afterwards and have a constant "sick" feeling at the back of my throat. eat biscuits all the time to get rid of it.

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Innovate/T-Flavanone - Day 21

14 Nov 03
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=8&topic_id=15388&mesg_id=15397&page=

same here.

3 weeks. has COMPLETELY destroyed my hair line !

so much so that my HT's are now extremely obvious. for the first time in my life, somebody i work with asked me "whats wrong with the front of your hair col?".

i am absolutely devastated. extreme depression is setting in. this will be obvious for at least 6-9 months even if i rushed off for another HT tomorrow.

i will continue as,because it has shed so incredibly quickly, that i am hoping that it is having a very positive effect in speeding up the hair growth cycle.....BUT I AM SCARED IT MAY NEVER GROW AGAIN !!!!!

cheers,col.

PS The Innovate instructions say:

"Discontinue use of Innovate if you are too sensitive to
alcohol or you cough when applying or you feel you are
having much shedding."

"Discontinue use of Innovate and consult your doctor if
you have a rash, redness, itching, eczema, swelling on
your scalp or severe shedding."

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Innovate/T-Flavanone - Day 24

17 Nov 03
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=set_linear_mode&forum=8&page=&topic_id=15552&prev_page=show_topic

Been using innovate/t-flavanone 24 days along hair-line only .(both twice a day)

No longer suffer shortness of breath after applying innovate. "Sick" feeling at back of throat has eased off. Interestingly, i thought i was shedding severely...not so !....what has actually been happening is the alcohol content in both topicals has been drying out my thin hair at the hair line. This has been causing the hairs to become incredibly dry & brittle and causing the hairs to "snap off"...not shed !....i have been looking very closely at the "shed" hairs these past few days....NO ROOTS have come out...its just brittle strands of hair.

But this could be worse than shedding !...i am losing all my hair-line...but WITHOUT any roots/hair bulbs actually coming out ! (not sure if this is good or bad yet).

Anyway, onto the most important thing of all. In the post above, "thevoice" says "I see lots of bumps where hair line used to be as if somthing is happening underneath the skin in that area"

SAME HERE !!!!!!!

I was extremely worried that this must have just been bumps from my previous HT work which i could only see now most of my hair-line has been wiped out. It looks like hair is about to force its way through (at least thats what i am praying!). Of course, it could be some sort of bad side effect from the topicals....but at least 2 of us have exactly the same thing after around 3 weeks or so.

Very interesting !....will be keeping a close eye on these bumps now that i know its not from previous HT work.

Cheers,Col.

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Innovate/T-Flavanone - Day 30

23 Nov 03
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=8&topic_id=15897&mesg_id=15915&page=

Re:
"I have 2 botles of T-FLAV, I dont use it as i am using Innovate and belive there might be some kind of interaction between the to. Where abts r u based?"

I was also wondering about the interaction between the 2. However,according to www.lipoxidil.com, it is perfectly OK to mix the 2 together !

"Further it is possible to mix 6-BAP with our t-Flavanone solution."

So i now use Innovate morning + before bed (wash hair first), and t-flavanone at around mid afternoon.

My shedding is due to the high alcohol content making my hair brittle and snap off.Personally, after my huge shedding experience due to the alcohol content, i would recommend others to try the lipoxidil soltion first. I know lipoxidil has a bad rep here,but its either that or suffer extremely severe total wipe out of the hair-line in around 3 weeks !

I will order from lipoxidil next time as they have removed the alcohol content and,interestingly,say they have also removed the PDG as it has been found utterly useless over the past 20 years...so much so that the European manufacturer Henkel has discontinued it for that very reason...ie...ITS CRAP !

You can order their 0.5% + 2% 6-bap + t-flavanone :
http://www.lipoxidil.com/site/experimental.php

No...i don't work for them...i'm just giving potential users an alcohol free option which *may* be better. I wish i had gone this route myself. I don't think i would have wiped out my hair-line this way.

Cheers,Col.

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Innovate/T-Flavanone - Day 42

6 week Innovate/T-Flavanone + 4 month MGF Plus/Spiro up..."

05 Dec 03
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=8&topic_id=16668&mesg_id=16668&listing_type=search

4 month MGF Plus / 5% Spiro update

Start date: 01 Aug 03

Application area:
Front/middle of hair line only at front of centre parting as this area of hair had disappeared during Dutasteride treatment earlier this year.

Application times:
am – 5% spiro
afternoon – MGF plus
tea time – 5% spiro
bed time – MGF plus

(yes, I know MGF plus contains spiro!)

01 - 30 Aug,caused a little more shedding then slowed down.

Approx. 30 Sep,i began sprouting some new, but very fine hairs with no pigment. Quite pleased,but have seen many false dawns before so said nothing.

By the beginning of November, these had turned into alot of new fine hair with no pigment. Getting quite excited after many years of trying everything including FNS,Xandrox,EMU oil,Tricomin,Dutasteride(nightmare!)etc,etc. Have also had several H.T.'s. in the past.

05 Dec 03. These hairs are now about 2 cm long and, if they get some colour (they still have no pigment), then it may fill in most of this area for the first time in about 3 years.

6 week Innovate/T-Flavanone update

Regimen:
Innovate - morning + evening, rubbed in whilst hair still wet.
Flavacyte - mid afternoon, rubbed in whilst hair still wet.

Start date:
25 Oct 03 (42 days or 6 weeks so far).

Application area:
Hairline only. Approx. 1 inch in front of hairline and approx. 1 inch into hairline.(including over the top of the MGF plus/spiro area).

Results so far:
05 Dec 03

1.....Extreme shedding in first 3 - 4 weeks. Some was hair that came out woth bulbs,but most was simply hair shafts (no bulbs) due to the high alcohol content making the hair shaft extremely brittle and simply snapping off.

2.....Initially had shortness of breath after applying which subsided after about 3 weeks use. However, chest pains & tightness of chest came back with a vengeance this week. I have had this since last saturday and went for an ECG this morning to rule out my heart (just in case). ECG seemed OK but have to go back tomorrow to get more tests. I dropped the mid-day T-flavanone a few days ago,but it made no difference - so it must be the Innovate. However, i did apply Innovate 3 x daily this past week ,so it appears to be entirely my fault ! (so no need to worry if you use it properly). I just thought i'd see how it went with "a little more".(NOT A GOOD IDEA!). I will drop to Innovate ONCE per day (at 21:00) for a while,with T-flavanone at mid day.

3.....The "bumps". I mentioned this before. I have hundreds of tiny bumps that go back about 1 inch all along my hairline. These developed in the first few weeks and are still there. Considering i apply the innovate/t-flavanone both 1 inch in front and 1 inch into hair line, then it must be hair related bumps as there are NO bumps whatsoever in front of my hair line (where there is no hair obviously!).

4.....Growth ? - nothing seems to be happening to hair line (either side of MGF plus/spiro area) yet.Although i have to say that the hair that has remained is definately harder to pull out than before. Also, it looks as though i have some white hairs appearing from some of these bumps, its just very difficult to tell with my current mirror and lighting. I think something is happening,but am not confident enough to say just yet.


SUMMARY:

The MGF plus/5% spiro combo is DEFINATELY working for me. It took around 2 months to begin to see anything, but the last 2 months has seen some good growth,albeit non pigmented hair around 2 cm long. I am hopeful that this will turn dark soon as its quite alot of new growth.

As for the Innovate/T-flavanone combo. I think this will probably produce results based on the incredibly quick and severe shed i had in the first 3 weeks which completely wiped ot my hair line (except the MGF/spiro area) and the appearance of the "bumps" in the hair bearing area of my hair line. Like the MGF plus/5% spiro combo, i don't expect to see results until the 2-3 month point (another couple of weeks).

My advice to anyone trying the Innovate is to use it PROPERLY !!!!

Although the Innovate intructions say to use it once or twice per day as recommended (on a wet scalp) and rub in thoroughly, i strongly suggest just once daily for the first few weeks. But most importantly, only use a SMALL amount to avoid the chest pains and shortness of breath. If you do NOT experience chest pains/shortness of breath, then go to twice per day. Clearly, Innovate is very potent and DOES get absorbed into the blood stream,as witnessed by many users side effects.

Well, thats all for now. I hope this helps.

cheers,col

EXTRA INFO:

5% spiro :
http://www.minoxidil.com/topical.htm

MGF plus:
http://www.lipoxidil.com/site/mgf.php

1…Innovate (6-bap) + Flavacyte (t-flavanone) order from Kurogrow instructions
2…Innovate usage instructions
3…Success Flavacyte usage instructions
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=8&topic_id=16283&mesg_id=16285&page=


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Innovate/T-Flavanone - Day 43

06 Dec 03
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=8&topic_id=16711&mesg_id=16725&page=

danstew,

READ my last post properly !

You will see that i had shortness of breath at the beginning on x2 Innovate per day. This went away. No problem.

HOWEVER, during week 5 - 6, i upped the dose to x3 Innovate per day. Thats when the problem got bad. I was OK on x2 per day...BUT NOT x3 PER DAY !!!!!!!

I was using it more than directed in the hope of quicker growth. Clearly, there is a reason why they only recommend 1 - 2 times per day.

I stopped the Innovate at 21:00 Wed 03 Dec. I still had bad chest "tightness" on thursday and friday. Today, it has almost (but not completely) gone. I will not take Innovate, x1 per day, until next Wed. A 7 day gap to eliminate Innovate from my system. I will then begin again,but x1 per day only,at 21:00, and with a much smaller dose to a dry scalp (have been using it on a wet scalp to increase absorption).

If i have any recurrence of the problems then i will discontinue.

Again, i emphasise, the problems occurred on x3 Innovate per day....more than the recommended dose.

For anyone trying Innovate, i strongly recommend you start on x1 per day, at 21:00 (as in the instructions) to a dry scalp. If this is OK, then, AND ONLY THEN, consider going to x2 per day.

Innovate is clearly a VERY POTENT drug that IS systemically absorbed if used in excess.

Cheers and good luck,col.

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Innovate/T-Flavanone - Day 59

DAY 59
23 Dec 03
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=8&topic_id=19256&mesg_id=19256&listing_type=search

Innovate/T-Flavanone.


ZERO growth. Not one single hair.
ZERO thickening.
ZERO darkening.

Have lost ALL hair going back 1 inch into hair-line. Transplants are now showing and very obvious.
have only been applying 1 inch in front and 1 inch into hair-line

This has,without doubt,been the WORST treatment ever for me. FNS 2 ?

No point in stopping as its only been 2 months so far and must carry on until 6 month point. There is no more hair to lose in treated area as it has already totally & completely wiped out my entire hair-line.

Very depressed and will NOT be going out at all during Christmas due to the extremely embarrassing hair-line !

Sorry to be so negative guys, but so far its been a complete disaster.

cheers,col.

PS No more chest tightness since applying once per day on a dry scalp.

PPS Frenchie. I also use 1.25mg Proscar per day and t-gel shampoo.So it looks like the only difference between our treatment programme is your oz-brew with minox and glucosamine sulfate . Can you give me exact details including where to buy please ? thanks.

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Innovate/T-Flavanone - Day 67

30 Dec 03
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=8&topic_id=17994&mesg_id=17997&page=

hi jojo,

innovate/t-flavanone
day 67

ZERO growth
ZERO thickening
ZERO darkening

no longer get side efects.

hairline now absolutely terrible. very unhappy but have nothing to lose by continuing. i am still encouraged by the major shedding as it shows that something must be happening...but will it grow back ?

cheers,col. :0(

PS awaiting my PEZ delivery

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Innovate/T-Flavanone - Day 73

05 Jan 03
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=8&topic_id=18265&mesg_id=18265&listing_type=search

DAY 73 (Started 25 Oct 03) - Innovate/t-flavanone

ZERO growth.
ZERO darkening.
ZERO thickening.

Sorry, but very disappointing so far. However, am giving it time as i don't really expect anything to happen until month 3/4. Hairline still completely wiped out. No more side effects (tight chest/heartburn/sick feeling at back of throat).

Even the non pigmented hair that i have grown in the MGF plus area is still non-pigmented, although much longer.

I'm sorry its a negative post (believe me, i wanted this to be positive!)...but i can only post my honest results. Really sorry. Hope i can post a better update in 3 weeks

col :0(

PS - Please don't start slagging me off for posting my honest opinion. I just don't need the hassle right now OK..i am depresed enough as it is !

PPS - Still waiting for my PEZ delivery.

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Innovate/T-Flavanone - Day 90

23 Jan 04
http://www.hairsite4.com/d

Edited: 02/09/2004 at 01:00 PM by chrome
 02/09/2004 02:21 PM
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jiminy
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Excellent!! So much great info I think my brain overflowed (ha!).

One question - what is this PEZ that I keep seeing on here? Is it a version of Oz, or something totally different?
 02/09/2004 03:45 PM
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Photomatt
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Col...can you please remind me why you use Innovate again?
 02/09/2004 10:55 PM
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chrome
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jiminy,

PEZ is nothing to do with Oz Brew.

PEZ is a topical treatment made by WMSR. It is a trial peptide treatment. It started about 18 months ago with their Flex 1 peptide then their Flex 2 peptide.

These didn't work, so they started on their far more powerful version called PEZ. So far, they are at PEX x20 strenth. They tried PEZ X1,X2,X4,X6,X8 with very little success. Howewer, their PEZ X10 version saw some very good results (so we are told). They are now doing PEZ x20 version.

Its an experimental treatment undergoing trials at present. Some people are on a free trial,others,like nyself,are a paying triallist, paying $500 US per month.

WARNING: Many people believe that WMSR is a scam. It may indeed turn out to be a scam. However,some of us,including myself, have decided to take the plunge and see at great expense. Trey just posted his 60 day update. He has had NO results thus far giving more ammunition to the SCAM believers. However, 60 days is too early to tell so the jury is still out.

Sumary: This may or may not be a scam...but somebody has to find out for sure. Imagine if it turns out to be the real deal !

cheers,col.
 02/09/2004 10:56 PM
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chrome
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photomatt,

:0)))
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