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Topic Title: Agomelatine
Topic Summary:
Created On: 08/16/2009 01:02 PM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
 Agomelatine   - Dean - 08/16/2009 01:02 PM  
 Agomelatine   - TheCamdenKid - 08/16/2009 03:33 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Dean - 08/16/2009 04:25 PM  
 Agomelatine   - jeffdom1978 - 08/16/2009 06:44 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Side Show Bob - 08/16/2009 07:50 PM  
 Agomelatine   - jeffdom1978 - 08/16/2009 08:15 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Dean - 08/16/2009 08:21 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Side Show Bob - 08/16/2009 09:03 PM  
 Agomelatine   - HairIsTooThin - 08/16/2009 09:19 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Pick34 - 08/16/2009 09:42 PM  
 Agomelatine   - RedX - 08/16/2009 10:26 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Dean - 08/17/2009 08:04 AM  
 Agomelatine   - Davis - 08/17/2009 08:26 AM  
 Agomelatine   - Dean - 08/19/2009 06:59 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Side Show Bob - 08/19/2009 09:29 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Dean - 08/20/2009 08:09 AM  
 Agomelatine   - wakebdr32 - 08/20/2009 12:29 PM  
 Agomelatine   - TheCamdenKid - 08/20/2009 01:02 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Side Show Bob - 08/20/2009 08:20 PM  
 Agomelatine   - eagle1 - 08/21/2009 09:21 AM  
 Agomelatine   - Dean - 08/21/2009 02:02 PM  
 Agomelatine   - JJZbaldy - 08/21/2009 04:50 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Calvin 2.0 - 08/21/2009 09:04 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Dean - 08/22/2009 06:08 PM  
 Agomelatine   - vegasbob - 08/22/2009 07:17 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Dean - 08/23/2009 07:16 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Dean - 08/23/2009 07:18 PM  
 Agomelatine   - StandStrong - 08/25/2009 11:02 AM  
 Agomelatine   - StandStrong - 08/24/2009 11:41 AM  
 Agomelatine   - 4cryingoutloud - 08/24/2009 08:32 PM  
 Agomelatine   - jeffdom1978 - 08/24/2009 09:10 PM  
 Agomelatine   - StandStrong - 08/25/2009 10:37 AM  
 Agomelatine   - calvinmd - 08/25/2009 03:34 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Side Show Bob - 08/25/2009 10:34 PM  
 Agomelatine   - jeffdom1978 - 08/26/2009 09:06 AM  
 Agomelatine   - jeffdom1978 - 08/26/2009 09:11 AM  
 Agomelatine   - 4cryingoutloud - 08/28/2009 06:26 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Balance - 08/28/2009 07:38 PM  
 Agomelatine   - justrich1976 - 08/29/2009 06:58 PM  
 Agomelatine   - wakebdr32 - 08/29/2009 08:21 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Patrick_Bateman - 08/30/2009 07:31 AM  
 Agomelatine   - StandStrong - 08/30/2009 09:47 AM  
 Agomelatine   - 4cryingoutloud - 08/30/2009 08:41 PM  
 Agomelatine   - eagle1 - 09/04/2009 07:15 AM  
 Agomelatine   - Dean - 09/04/2009 02:21 PM  
 Agomelatine   - irishnw3 - 09/04/2009 04:26 PM  
 Agomelatine   - JohnDavid45 - 09/04/2009 07:06 PM  
 Agomelatine   - vegasbob - 09/05/2009 01:03 AM  
 Agomelatine   - eagle1 - 09/13/2009 08:22 AM  
 Agomelatine   - Cue Bald - 09/13/2009 09:35 AM  
 Agomelatine   - neis - 09/22/2009 01:23 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Bora - 09/22/2009 02:07 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Dean - 09/29/2009 05:58 AM  
 Agomelatine   - Bora - 09/29/2009 12:33 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Calvin 2.0 - 09/29/2009 01:08 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Bora - 09/30/2009 02:36 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Dean - 10/05/2009 08:23 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Dean - 10/05/2009 08:25 PM  
 Agomelatine   - Bora - 10/06/2009 12:47 AM  
 Agomelatine   - lk4444 - 10/06/2009 06:34 AM  
 Agomelatine   - Dean - 10/06/2009 12:04 PM  
 Agomelatine   - lasasasa - 10/23/2009 06:46 AM  
 Agomelatine   - Dean - 11/15/2009 04:08 PM  
 Agomelatine   - lasasasa - 11/19/2009 04:25 PM  
 Agomelatine   - I want my hair back - 12/01/2009 10:09 AM  
 Agomelatine   - Calvin 2.0 - 12/02/2009 12:10 AM  
 Agomelatine   - yas - 03/15/2013 09:38 PM  
 Agomelatine   - hoppi - 07/09/2013 06:20 AM  
 Agomelatine   - riloal - 11/28/2013 04:53 AM  
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 08/16/2009 01:02 PM
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Dean
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Hello all - I haven't posted here for a while, but I have stumbled across something that I think deserves mention. I would like to know if anyone here is familiar with a new medication called Agomelatine. It is a drug that is chemically very similar to melatonin and has been in clinical trials for the past few years as a treatment for depression. Recently, it was approved in Europe where it is available under the trade names Valdoxan and Melitor. You can read about it on Wikipedia. I first became aware of this drug in late 2007 when I got access to it through a clinical trial for sleep problems. The drug worked great for me with no side effect s(it has very few) The surprising thing was that I was almost certain that, after some 2 months, it was improving my hair. Unfortunately, in the 3rd month I moved to the East Coast and had to leave the trial and couldn't get the drug since it was not yet available. A little over 2 months ago, I discovered that Agomelatine had been approved in Europe and was available (it should be available in the US next year) Having had a lot of sleep issues and some depression, I immediately ordered some and went back on it. I've now been on for 10 weeks. I take 25mg before bed daily. Just before starting on it, I went through a terrible shed for reasons unknown. Like many of you guys, I know just exactly how much hair I normally shed from years of monitoring different treatments, and my hair was suddenly falling out 4-6 hairs at a time and I was freaked. Well now in my 3rd month of Agomelatine my shed rate is back to normal and, more interestingly, my previous observation seems to be consistent - my hair is improving again - faster than with any other treatment I've ever used. The growth cycle seems to be longer and I have terminal hair growing in my crown where nothing has grown longer than about 1/2 inch for years. I have stylable hair there now and all my hair is growing longer and better. I have started taking pictures, but I can tell something is going on. I also know this is the case because I haven't colored any gray out of my hair and yet my hair is far darker because it is growing better. Has anyone else had any experience with Agomelatine? I did some research and discovered that A.G Henkel company has filed a patent for a hair treatment which uses it. http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?WO=2009024361 I should mention that I take dutasteride daily and shampoo with 2% Nizoral daily for over 5 years, so this may be a synergistic effect. Having used most of the treatments we discuss here, I have never noticed this much of a result nor this fast with anything else. (other than transplantation) If anyone else has any information I'm very interested in hearing it. Best to all, Dean
 08/16/2009 03:33 PM
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TheCamdenKid
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That's an interesting read! It's bringing back a few things I've read about Melatonin......I know there's some link between Melatonin and Melanin (responsible for pigmentation) which may have something to do with you experiencing hair colour changes. Your post has made me want to go back and review what I've read before!

Which website are you ordering your Agomelatine from anyway?

Thanks for posting!
 08/16/2009 04:25 PM
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Dean
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I have ordered Valdoxan from www.unitedpharmacies.com. Great place and they have good prices on Duprost (Cipla Dutasteride) and lots of other things as well. There is also a Google group called Agomelatine Psychonauts which I've been reading and posting to occasionally for about a month. It's pretty much ground zero for AGO info as far as I can tell. There is a FAQ on it telling where to order Melitor out of Russia for a lot lower cost. I just bought a 2 month supply from somebody who didn't need theirs for about $90 - near 1/2 the price of Valdoxan. It is definitely legit and a good deal. Interesting point about the pigmentation - I thought just having more hair growth might be increasing the ratio of dark hairs to gray, but that makes more sense. If I didn't mention before, the stuff definitely helps you fall asleep, improves quality of sleep, and alleviates depression - as effectively as Paxil according to the literature. Takes a month or 2 to do everything I've mentioned but improves your sleep from the very first dose. Some people also are started off on 50mg daily if they have more severe depression and later are phased down to 25. According to the literature, there are no bad effects when it is discontinued. (the lit is somewhere on the Novartis website - trial name was something like AGO739 but may be under trade names now) Dean
 08/16/2009 06:44 PM
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jeffdom1978
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Wow, Ive been doing about an hour of research on this and I really like the possibilites here! Very similiar mechanism to how Melatonin works.

I have sleep problems and take Ambien and occasionally Xanax for anxiety....... If Hair growth is a side effect of this, then WOW!

I am really thinking about ordering this, just for the sleep benefits and possibly anxiety..

I'd like to hear more thoughts on this

anyone?

-------------------------
Currently Regimen:

- Spiro 2% Lotion
- Nano Shampoo
- Nizoral

On Order:

Eucapil (Fluridil) 3 months supply
RU 58841

Oral:
Biotin 5mg
Hair/Nails Multi-vitamin
LE Tocotrienols
Apple Cider Vinegar
 08/16/2009 07:50 PM
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Side Show Bob
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Hey Dean, great find.

How much are you taking daily?

Thanks.

SSB
 08/16/2009 08:15 PM
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jeffdom1978
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he says 25mg at bedtime.



-------------------------
Currently Regimen:

- Spiro 2% Lotion
- Nano Shampoo
- Nizoral

On Order:

Eucapil (Fluridil) 3 months supply
RU 58841

Oral:
Biotin 5mg
Hair/Nails Multi-vitamin
LE Tocotrienols
Apple Cider Vinegar
 08/16/2009 08:21 PM
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Dean
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Correct, 25 mg (1 pill) right at bedtime. Generally I fall asleep within 1/2 hour max and sleep very well. Without it I tend to wake up at least 1-2 times each night - with it I sleep right through almost always and sleep just seems to keep improving the longer I use it.
 08/16/2009 09:03 PM
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Side Show Bob
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Man, this stuff isn't exactly cheap. $115 for 28 tabs at U.P. That's not including

shipping. Alldaychemist doesn't carry it.

Anyone know where it might be less expensive?
 08/16/2009 09:19 PM
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HairIsTooThin
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Are you seeing any new hairs? Do you have pictures?

Thanks
 08/16/2009 09:42 PM
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Pick34
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Has your hairloss slowed or stopped?
 08/16/2009 10:26 PM
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RedX
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Hmm, this is interesting. I came across a study not too long ago on PubMed that talked about the use of topical melatonin to treat Androgenetic Alopecia in women.


Melatonin increases anagen hair rate in women with androgenetic alopecia or diffuse alopecia: results of a pilot randomized controlled trial.

Fischer TW, Burmeister G, Schmidt HW, Elsner P.
Department of Dermatology and Allergology, Friedrich-Schiller-University, Erfurter Strasse 35, D-07740 Jena, Germany. tobias.fischer@derma.uni-jena.de

BACKGROUND: In addition to the well-known hormonal influences of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone on the hair cycle, melatonin has been reported to have a beneficial effect on hair growth in animals. The effect of melatonin on hair growth in humans has not been investigated so far. OBJECTIVES: To examine whether topically applied melatonin influences anagen and telogen hair rate in women with androgenetic or diffuse hair loss. METHODS: A double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled study was conducted in 40 women suffering from diffuse alopecia or androgenetic alopecia. A 0.1% melatonin or a placebo solution was applied on the scalp once daily for 6 months and trichograms were performed to assess anagen and telogen hair rate. To monitor effects of treatment on physiological melatonin levels, blood samples were taken over the whole study period. RESULTS: Melatonin led to a significantly increased anagen hair rate in occipital hair in women with androgenetic hair loss compared with placebo (n=12; P=0.012). For frontal hair, melatonin gave a significant increase in the group with diffuse alopecia (n=28; P=0.046). The occipital hair samples of patients with diffuse alopecia and the frontal hair counts of those with androgenetic alopecia also showed an increase of anagen hair, but differences were not significant. Plasma melatonin levels increased under treatment with melatonin, but did not exceed the physiological night peak. CONCLUSIONS: To the authors' knowledge, this pilot study is the first to show that topically applied melatonin might influence hair growth in humans in vivo. The mode of action is not known, but the effect might result from an induction of anagen phase.

PMID: 14996107 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 08/17/2009 08:04 AM
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Dean
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FYI, the Agomelatine Psychonauts Google group can be found at http://groups.google.ca/group/...ychonauts?hl=en&pli=1

You have to join, but they're pretty much open to anyone.
 08/17/2009 08:26 AM
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Davis
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Cliff notes version of whats being discussed anyone?

-------------------------
First transplant with karamikian 6/05, less than 1000 to my hairline, result was mediocre at best.
2nd HT, this time with DR Feller 2/08, 3000+ to my front third.
Came out well, however due to thin hair characteristics, I need more for a fuller look.

3rd HT with Dr Feller 9/09. Roughly 1000 into my crown, and roughly 1500 into the thin front 1/3 portions as well as the hair behind the 2nd HT that receded.
 08/19/2009 06:59 PM
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Dean
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So tonight I decided to trim my hair up just a slight bit as I'd let it get pretty long. Gave myself a very minimal shaping on the sides with Flowbee and also took about 1/2" off the top. I basically used the longest Flowbee tube I could that would just take a bit off the ends of all the longest hair so as to let the shorter hairs catch up a bit. Came out great.

Later, I was sitting in bed using my laptop and just happened to reach back and touch the crown of my head. THere is no question - I have more hair there than before - I can actually feel the increased density. Trimming it a bit made the density more observable - I can both see and feel the hair in my crown now without question.

This is either a heck of an coincidence or agomelatine is growing hair - and fast. I measured the hairs I've observed in my crown and they are 1.5 to 2" long and my hair overall looks the best it has in several years.

Something is going on here.

Dean
 08/19/2009 09:29 PM
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Side Show Bob
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Hey Dean,

Just to clarify, have you been prescribed this drug in the states?

Did you or your doctor first suggest it?

Does it leave you groggy in the am?
 08/20/2009 08:09 AM
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Dean
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Not prescribed this time and first time I was in a clinical trial. I'm not aware of any off label prescribing of this drug at present since it's too new and not sold in the US yet.
No AM grogginess whatsoever. Dean
 08/20/2009 12:29 PM
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wakebdr32
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Melatonin can be purchased in 3-10mg tablets from most vitamin places dirt cheap if there are similarities with this Agomelatine.

-------------------------
44yr old veteran and still NW2. Give your treatment reasonable time, monitor your results and do your own diligence. Many will respond differently to treatment regardless funded Pharma studies and peddlers that speak in absolutes...
 08/20/2009 01:02 PM
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TheCamdenKid
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To follow up on what Wakebdr said, you can also get melatonin cream that's absorbed transdermally. I know Biovea do one. I bought some a while back when I was looking into melatonin and hair loss, but don't think I started using it (must've been a reason why I purchased it, though!). I've been using it the last couple of nights because Dean's post reminded me of it and it does seem to help me fall asleep quicker.

I'll add more to this later as I've gotta run now.
 08/20/2009 08:20 PM
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Side Show Bob
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I looked at a melatonin cream a while back and, as I recall, there were a lot of

other things in it I didn't care for.

The standard melatonin dosage is recommended as 3 mgs max.

I wonder what 25mgs at night would do for your hair.

Assuming you weren't dead the next morning!
 08/21/2009 09:21 AM
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eagle1
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Dean, thanks for the info. I am 36 and have 90% of my hair, but the hair in front is thin and doesnt grow long... From your experience, would I achieve a dramatic improvement by using Agomelatine or would it be rather innocuous? If it werent so costly I would just go ahead and purchase....thanks
 08/21/2009 02:02 PM
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Dean
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Eagle - I really cannot say as there's just not enough data yet.
All I can say for sure is that I have used it twice and noticed this effect both times and it is a very innocuous drug with other positive benefits if anyone else wants to try it.

YMMV

Dean
 08/21/2009 04:50 PM
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JJZbaldy
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Hi Dean,

Thanks for the information! I am hesitant to join the Google group, but I bet they may be a good group to bounce the questions about hair growth around with. Have you posted to the Google group about this? I am reluctant to join just to ask questions about hair growth.

I'd love to hear if anyone in that group had also experienced thickening or even regrowth.

Best,

JJ
 08/21/2009 09:04 PM
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Calvin 2.0
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Hey guys. This is getting interesting.



First thought off the cuff:

Is this is a case of "let's alter the natural substance (melatonin) just enough to slap a patent on it"?



And do we have any real experience to draw upon in terms of daily Melatonin supplementation? Has anyone tried it and paid attention to hair results in the past? Studies?



 08/22/2009 06:08 PM
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Dean
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Yeah I plan to post there and see what people say.
 08/22/2009 07:17 PM
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vegasbob
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Heres a write up about melatonin supps.
Looks like they do a similar job so far as sleep is concerned so would these have the same effect on your hair?

What is Melatonin? Melatonin is a ubiquitous natural hormone-like compound produced in the pineal gland (embedded deeply in the brain). This hormone is involved in numerous aspects of general circadian and physiological regulations. It sets and maintains the internal clock governing the natural rhythm of body functions. The amount of melatonin produced by our body seems to lessen as we get older. Scientists believe this may be why young people have less sleeping problem than older people.

For more information please see Product Details below.

What are its functions? Melatonin regulates immunity, the stress response and some aspects of the aging process. Clinically, melatonin has been used in rhythm disturbances and sleep disorders. In addition, melatonin has been reported to make people feel better, strengthen the immune system, and reduce free radicals in the body.

Each tablet contains homeopathic ingredient 3mg melatonin 5x

Recommended dosage: 3 tablets half an hour before bed time for relief of insomnia; 2 tablets per day for general well-being.
 08/23/2009 07:16 PM
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Dean
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I've stumbled across a number of things online about use of melatonin in hair loss. Most interesting was an article on topical use to treat androgenic alopecia. This is interesting - article discussing melatonin downregulating androgen receptor affinity. Extremely interesting stuff - don't know how I never heard about it before.
from http://www.hairloss-research.org/melatonin.html
______

MELATONIN DOWNREGULATES ANDROGEN RECEPTOR ACTIVITY

Another potentially useful agent for hair loss prevention and/or treatment may be right under our noses. Recent studies out of prostate research have shown melatonin to downregulate androgen and estrogen receptor activity, the activity of which is directly related to hormonal hair loss. Studies in various animal species have shown a dramatic increase in hair and fur production in response to the administration of melatonin.

Differential regulation by melatonin of cell growth and androgen receptor binding to the androgen response element in prostate cancer cells.
Rimler A, Lupowitz Z, Zisapel N.
Department of Neurobiochemistry, The George S. Wise Faculty of Life Sciences, Tel Aviv University; Tel Aviv 69978 Israel.
OBJECTIVES: The pineal hormone melatonin inhibits the growth of benign human prostate epithelial cells and the androgen-dependent prostate cancer LNCaP cells. In the androgen-nonresponsive prostate carcinoma PC3 cells melatonin inhibits cell growth only at high but not low cell density. We have recently found that melatonin causes nuclear exclusion of the AR and attenuates it transcriptional activity in LNCaP cells as well as PC3 cells stably transfected with a wild type AR expressing vector (PC3-AR). The aim of this study was to investigate whether melatonin inhibits effects of AR on cell growth in PC3-AR cells and whether inhibition of AR DNA binding is involved. METHODS: The effects of androgen, melatonin and their combination on the growth of the PC3-AR cells and on AR DNA binding in PC3-AR and LNCaP cells were studied. RESULTS: DHT suppressed cell growth in the PC3-AR cells and enhanced AR binding to the androgen responsive element (ARE). Melatonin had no effect on cell growth in the absence of DHT but counteracted the androgen-induced inhibition at low androgen concentrations. Melatonin did not suppress and even slightly enhanced the capacity of AR binding to the ARE in the PC3-AR as well as in LNCaP cells. CONCLUSIONS: Attenuation by melatonin of AR activity in the prostate cancer cells is not due to suppression of AR binding to the ARE, and is presumably caused by its effects on AR protein interaction and intracellular trafficking.

Melatonin elicits nuclear exclusion of the human androgen receptor and attenuates its activity.
Rimler A, Culig Z, Levy-Rimler G, Lupowitz Z, Klocker H, Matzkin H, Bartsch G, Zisapel N.
Department of Neurobiochemistry, The George S. Wise Faculty of Life Sciences, Tel Aviv University, Tel Aviv, Israel.
BACKGROUND: The androgen receptor (AR) promotes growth and functionality of androgen sensitive benign and cancer tissues. The pineal hormone melatonin is an androgen protagonist in vivo and in vitro. The interference of melatonin in the AR cascade was explored. METHODS: The effects of melatonin on AR expression, level, agonist and androgen-response element (ARE) binding, reporter gene activity and intracellular localization were explored in prostate cancer LNCaP cell line. RESULTS: Melatonin increased immunoreactive AR cells in the absence and presence of dihydrotestosterone. Despite this increase and maintenance of AR agonist binding capacity, the androgen-induced reporter gene activity and suppression of AR-mRNA were attenuated.
Immunocytochemical analysis and subcellular fractionation studies revealed nuclear exclusion of AR by melatonin.
CONCLUSIONS: The melatonin-mediated nuclear exclusion of the AR may explain the attenuation of AR activity in the prostate cancer cells. This is the first demonstration of a hormone-induced mislocalization of the AR in prostate epithelial cells and may represent a novel route for regulating AR activity. Copyright 2001 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
*The doses used to downregulate androgen receptor activity is very high, and involved the equivilant of 1mg per every kilogram of bodyweight. However the sleep effects of melatonin are not dose dependent, (3mg works as well as 50mg.), and the same possibly apply to androgen receptor activity as well.
________________________________
That last line is extremely interesting:

The doses used to downregulate androgen receptor activity is very high, and involved the equivilant of 1mg per every kilogram of bodyweight. However the sleep effects of melatonin are not dose dependent, (3mg works as well as 50mg.), and the same possibly apply to androgen receptor activity as well.

I have noticed that 50mg of Agomelatine does not make me sleep any faster than 25mg. Can;t say what effect dosage difference has on depression, though as I've only tried 50mg once or twice.

This stuff is really fascinating.
 08/23/2009 07:18 PM
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Dean
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Another example from Hairsite:

Topical melatonin is found to be effective in the treatment of hair loss.

Melatonin increases anagen hair rate in women with androgenetic alopecia or diffuse alopecia: results of a pilot randomized controlled trial.

Br J Dermatol. 2004 Feb;150(2):341-5

BACKGROUND:
In addition to the well-known hormonal influences of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone on the hair cycle, melatonin has been reported to have a beneficial effect on hair growth in animals. The effect of melatonin on hair growth in humans has not been investigated so far.

OBJECTIVES:
To examine whether topically applied melatonin influences anagen and telogen hair rate in women with androgenetic or diffuse hair loss.

METHODS:
A double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled study was conducted in 40 women suffering from diffuse alopecia or androgenetic alopecia. A 0.1% melatonin or a placebo solution was applied on the scalp once daily for 6 months and trichograms were performed to assess anagen and telogen hair rate. To monitor effects of treatment on physiological melatonin levels, blood samples were taken over the whole study period.

RESULTS:
Melatonin led to a significantly increased anagen hair rate in occipital hair in women with androgenetic hair loss compared with placebo (n=12; P=0.012). For frontal hair, melatonin gave a significant increase in the group with diffuse alopecia (n=28; P=0.046). The occipital hair samples of patients with diffuse alopecia and the frontal hair counts of those with androgenetic alopecia also showed an increase of anagen hair, but differences were not significant. Plasma melatonin levels increased under treatment with melatonin, but did not exceed the physiological night peak.

CONCLUSIONS:
To the authors' knowledge, this pilot study is the first to show that topically applied melatonin might influence hair growth in humans in vivo. The mode of action is not known, but the effect might result from an induction of anagen phase.
 08/25/2009 11:02 AM
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StandStrong
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Here is some more info -

Melatonin is soluble in ethanol by about 50mg/ml. This is good. You could get a 5% solution with this.

Only problem is it is light sensitive and subject to oxidation. Its said that melatonin decomposes in ethanol on standing.

Making a decent topical with this could be harder than just adding it to ethanol. Every time you take the dropper out of the bottle it will oxidize a little. Like L-Ascorbic Acid.

Plus it decomposes in ethanol.
 08/24/2009 11:41 AM
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StandStrong
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very interesting studies dean.

Maybe taking about 25mg of Melatonn per day might work help?

Or maybe find out what melatonin is soluble in and make a 0.1% topical like the study used.
 08/24/2009 08:32 PM
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4cryingoutloud
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Originally posted by: StandStrong

very interesting studies dean.



Maybe taking about 25mg of Melatonn per day might work help?



Or maybe find out what melatonin is soluble in and make a 0.1% topical like the study used.



In health food stores they already have oral (topical?) melotonin in a spray bottle, that you are suppose to spray under your tongue, I see no reason why you could not use it off label and spray it on your head.


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 08/24/2009 09:10 PM
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jeffdom1978
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Found this doing some research...

Scientists have been doing research on various uses for melatonin. They noticed that animals with high levels of melatonin were subject to fast fur growth. There has been much success with using melatonin for hair growth. It has been touted it as a possible treatment to undo the changes brought on by the loss of melatonin from aging.

Men create a chemical known as DHT. This chemical causes the hair follicles in men to stop working, thus creating hair loss. Melatonin, besides just being a very powerful anti-oxidant, blocks out DHT receptors thusly preventing hair loss from occurring in the first place. Anti-oxidants alone do not cause hair growth but melatonin is used to help stimulate these changes, reversing the damage that free radicals


"DHT is much needed for both men and women to function sexually. This is why melatonin is often used as a topical solution that can be applied directly to the skin in large quantities because melatonin, generally speaking, is completely safe and not at all toxic. Topical application is the preferred method of use because it is targeted to the needed area."

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 08/25/2009 10:37 AM
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StandStrong
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nice post jeff.

where did you find this info? What is the site?

Here is something I found about melatonin -

Description

Caution: Solutions are light sensitive and subject to oxidation.

Biochem/physiol Actions Hormone; mediates photoperiodicity in mammals; inhibits cerebellar nitric oxide synthetase; peroxynitrite scavenger. Melatonin has complex effects on apoptotic pathways, inhibiting apoptosis in immune cells and neurons but enhancing apoptotic cell death of cancer cells. Inhibits proliferation/metastasis of breast cancer cells by inhibiting estrogen receptor action.

Edited: 08/25/2009 at 10:54 AM by StandStrong
 08/25/2009 03:34 PM
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calvinmd
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So you mix it per usage. Not a huge roadblock.

 08/25/2009 10:34 PM
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Side Show Bob
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 08/26/2009 09:06 AM
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jeffdom1978
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Nice find Side Show!

I wonder if applying this to the scalp would do anything?? Looks like they found a way to make it absorb transdermally.

I just wonder if applying this will it make you sleepy? So I guess this would be most effective at night?

Any thoughts, Its cheap enough!

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 08/26/2009 09:11 AM
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jeffdom1978
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the well-known hormonal influences of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone on the hair cycle, melatonin has been reported to have a beneficial effect on hair growth in animals. The effect of melatonin on hair growth in humans has not been investigated so far. To examine whether topically applied melatonin influences anagen and telogen hair rate in women with androgenetic or diffuse hair loss. A double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled study was conducted in 40 women suffering from diffuse alopecia or androgenetic alopecia. A 0.1% melatonin or a placebo solution was applied on the scalp once daily for 6 months and trichograms were performed to assess anagen and telogen hair rate. To monitor effects of treatment on physiological melatonin levels, blood samples were taken over the whole study period. Melatonin led to a significantly increased anagen hair rate in occipital hair in women with androgenetic hair loss compared with placebo. For frontal hair, melatonin gave a significant increase in the group with diffuse alopecia. The occipital hair samples of patients with diffuse alopecia and the frontal hair counts of those with androgenetic alopecia also showed an increase of anagen hair, but differences were not significant. Plasma melatonin levels increased under treatment with melatonin, but did not exceed the physiological night peak. To the authors' knowledge, this pilot study is the first to show that topically applied melatonin might influence hair growth in humans in vivo. The mode of action is not known, but the effect might result from an induction of anagen phase.


http://www.thefind.com/beauty/browse-melatonin-cream

This place sells athe 0.1% cream like the study says, I wonder what the difference is to the 3mg cream link in the above post??

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 08/28/2009 06:26 PM
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4cryingoutloud
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I have used melatonin 3- 6 times a week at bed time to help me sleep for years and it works excellent. One thing for sure is when I take 3mg of melatonin it is at bed time and not during the day because this stuff really knocks me out and begins to take effect in about 20 min. I have not tried the topical spray but I intend to get some and spray it on my head (not under the tongue) at bed time.

The cool thing about this is I will know if it is working and absorbing because I should begin to feel sleepy, same as the oral.

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 08/28/2009 07:38 PM
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Balance
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Certainly an interesting find which appears to tick a lot of the right boxes. Was doing a little bit of reading on it and found this:

'melatonin induces synthesis of endigenous antioxidants such as superoxide dismutase (SOD).'

Afaik SOD has a hair growth stimulating effect and is involved in vasolidation. Not saying that's the mechanism possibly at play here, just some additional info.
 08/29/2009 06:58 PM
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justrich1976
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At least we know Melatonin is SAFE.

I use Consumer Labs review, and the over all best brand was Natrol 3 mg Tablets.

Price cannot be beat, and at least you know it's one of the best brands TESTED.

I get mine from Iherb I find them to be the best for pricing, and shipping!
 08/29/2009 08:21 PM
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wakebdr32
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I've been taking the 3mg Melatonin capsules before bedtime for 4 nights now. slept like a rock as I'm a bad sleeper and can't shut down the brain.

Anything to help me sleep w/a stressful job and possible help in the hair department works for me.




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44yr old veteran and still NW2. Give your treatment reasonable time, monitor your results and do your own diligence. Many will respond differently to treatment regardless funded Pharma studies and peddlers that speak in absolutes...
 08/30/2009 07:31 AM
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Patrick_Bateman
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Melatonin has been used pretty widely for a while now, surely if people were seeing anything positive in terms of hair growth it would have been covered a bit more extensively by now?

The topical offers promise though imo
 08/30/2009 09:47 AM
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StandStrong
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wakebdr32, did you feel grogy at all in the morning when you took the melatonin?

Like was there any hang over effect? I have trouble sleeping to and some off the other meds Ive taken for sleep make me groggy in the morning and I hate that. I want a good nights sleep to feel fresh in the morning.
 08/30/2009 08:41 PM
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4cryingoutloud
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Yes there is a groggy effect 50% of the time with me but one big glass of water will end it in minutes. Food or coffee too.

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 09/04/2009 07:15 AM
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eagle1
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Dean, just wondering if you could update us on how the drug is working as you continue using it...i am considering purchasing
 09/04/2009 02:21 PM
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Dean
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Eagle, The results continue. My hair looks better than it has in current memory and my crown bald spot unquestionably continues to improve. The lower 1/3 of it is disappearing steadily - you can see it in this picture. my hair also seems to be growing faster and of much better quality with minimal shedding. So far, so good. Now I need a decent haircut. On that subject - this is what's really interesting: I've been cutting my hair with the flowbee on top exclusively for the past year. The spacer I use for the top is about 2.5" high, no hair in my crown ever has gotten cut by it as it hasn;t been long enough except around the edges. Using the flowbee with the cutter turned off, I have hair in the crown that reaches at least 1/2 to 2/3 way up the spacer now. There was nothing of cutting length there before. it's hard to quantify, but there si definitely something going on. i guess time will show - I'll keep taking pictures. After a cut is when I usually see something and I have one due soon - about 2 weeks sooner than usual. Funny thing - on the Agomelatine psychonauts google group, someone said "if AGO grew hair, we'd have heard about it by now." I informed him that, no, we wouldn't have, because it has only been available in clinical trials and those trials did not track hair growth as either a side effect nor a benefit. (I mentioned it to the Dr. when I was in it, and they didn't care either way.) It is entirely possible, and I think very likely, that anyone using it now is among the very first to test it for hair growth. PS: please disregard the date stamp on this photo - my camera date is wrong. Dean

S6300793.JPG
S6300793.JPG  (283 KB)



Edited: 09/04/2009 at 06:00 PM by Dean
 09/04/2009 04:26 PM
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irishnw3
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found this:

http://www.asatex.us/product-E.html

dont know where u can buy it prob expensive too

 09/04/2009 07:06 PM
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JohnDavid45
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Dean, do you have any before pics for comparison? Is Agomelatine the only hair loss preventative you use?

thanks in advance

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 09/05/2009 01:03 AM
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vegasbob
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I've been taking melatonin tabs for about a week now.
Certainly don't knock me out, and I tend to then wake up about 1am and cant get back to sleep for an hour or so!

Will keep taking them though!
 09/13/2009 08:22 AM
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eagle1
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Dean, any more updates for us?? Has anyone else in the google forum you mentioned had results?? Is the gray continuing to lessen? I have about 5% gray, mostly in the temples, and would love for them to go away somehow/ Is the hair continuing to thicken??

thanks!
 09/13/2009 09:35 AM
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Cue Bald
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Cool, I never knew this about Melatonin.
I've been taking it for a while now in 3mg tablets, and it works quite well. It doesn't knock you out as much as zolpiclone or diphenhydramine hydrochloride do, but every time you take it, it works the same - whereas all the other drugs I've used lose their effectiveness after a week.
Seems to me that it "accelerates" the time your body thinks it has been awake, so if you take it at 11pm, you feel as tired as you would come 3am.
 09/22/2009 01:23 PM
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neis
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Any updates o Agomelatine..?
 09/22/2009 02:07 PM
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Bora
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yes any updates please?? I ordered this stuff from unitedpharmacies to help me sleep, if it grows hair that's a bonus. Is there any more evidence that it regrows hair other than anecdotal evidence??

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 09/29/2009 05:58 AM
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Dean
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Results continue. Evidence is all anecdotal so far.
 09/29/2009 12:33 PM
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Bora
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just got my agomelatine today. Dean, did you feel drousy in the morning after taking it? I think I'll start with 25mg for a couple of weeks. Hopefully it improves my sleep. It's expensive though!

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 09/29/2009 01:08 PM
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Calvin 2.0
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I've totally lost track of when various things are being taken topically versus systemically here.

Are you guys talking about topical melatonin? Topical aglomatine?

Do we have any more info about whether aglomatine is actually a different enough drug, and not just a re-worked version of natural melatonin so they can patent it?

 09/30/2009 02:36 PM
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Bora
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I am going to use it orally. It is actually an antidepressant. It is a stronger version of melatonine I believe, but I could be wrong. Dont think it will do much for hair though...if it will I'll let you know :-)

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 10/05/2009 08:23 PM
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Dean
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Bora - no AM drowsiness whatsoever. Quite the opposite in fact. Dean
 10/05/2009 08:25 PM
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Dean
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Agomelatine is significantly different enough from melatonin to be patented and has, in fact, been patented by Novartis. Look in Wikipedia for more.
 10/06/2009 12:47 AM
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Bora
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Been on it for a week now. Sleep quality is better, but could be placebo effect..not sure. No sides, no effect on hair, but too early to tell of course.

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 10/06/2009 06:34 AM
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lk4444
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I joined because I wanted to point out that some people have reported hair loss with Agomelatine, so your mileage may vary. It all depends on how solid the science behind the treatment is.
 10/06/2009 12:04 PM
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Dean
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Looks like just one person and I'd be wary of the experience of someone who was recently on SSRIs as there is a LOT of hair loss noted by SSRI users and it's usually after being on for a while and continues until they've been off for a month or more.
 10/23/2009 06:46 AM
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lasasasa
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I started agomelatine 3 days ago.
What I can say is that I've definitely noticed that something's wrong with my hair. I can be positive since I had a transplant back in May and I've been closely monitoring my hair growth, especially now when I'm approaching the 6 month mark when hair is supposed to grow thicker.
BUT , it's only 3 days- 3 pills and probably it's due to some mild anxiety side effect of the drug, or because this med is supposed to to re-synchronize the circadian rhythms and maybe the whole body is affected. As the leaflet says that side effects subside after two weeks I think I'll have to wait till then to reach a conclusion.
At this point here comes my question to Dean. Did you notice improvement from day 1 , or had you noticed some degree of hair loss in the first few days(as I do) before any improvement ?
Ps I haven't been on SSRIs for years , which by the way do cause hair loss and their side effects are far more severe than the ones I am having during my brief experience with valdoxan.For those interested I wouldn't say I'm more anxious but more like feeling on edge. Also, a little bit tired , but again nothing as the side effects of SSRIs SE so far

Edited: 10/23/2009 at 06:55 AM by lasasasa
 11/15/2009 04:08 PM
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Dean
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It will be at least 2 months before you notice anything from the Agomelatine. Anything in the first few days like that is not likely related.
 11/19/2009 04:25 PM
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lasasasa
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Probably you are right, it makes sense
I think that I'll resume usage of ago
What about your hair growth? still good?
 12/01/2009 10:09 AM
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I want my hair back
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Hey Dean et al any updates on the Agomelatine?

Do you know how I can go about ordering online and getting shipped to North America??

I've personally tried a number of the anti depressants over many years that are SSRIs and they don't suit me well. Tried several over the years but all tend to give me wicked head aches and cause me insomnia and therefore needed to discontinue usage.

I am currently taking Xanax and sleeping pills but they are doing shit for my depression as they are anti-anxiety pills.

If I could use a non-SSRI based anti depressant such as Agomelatine, that would help me sleep with the potential to combat hair loss....this would be a miracle drug for me and I could finally ditch all the others.

Thanks in advance,
 12/02/2009 12:10 AM
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Calvin 2.0
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If you generally feel better from the sunny weather during the brighter summer months, then you might try some vitamin D dosing in the winter. It helps me out.

The typical doses of vit-D in multivitamins and even vit-D supplement pills are usually in the hundreds of IUs. That's not enough. Even a few minutes outside in the summer is probably giving you several thousand IUs if you are wearing shorts and a T-shirt.

 03/15/2013 09:38 PM
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yas
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Hi, this is a really interesting thread.

Anyone who is still experimenting with melatonin or agomelatin?
 07/09/2013 06:20 AM
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hoppi
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I personally think this thread is fantastic BUT... we may be in danger of overlooking the real reason for the success of agomelatine. Possibly.

Now, the reason I even Googled "agomelatine hair" and found this thread is because agomelatine is a strong 5-HT2C antagonist.

Why does this matter?

Because 5-HT2C is most likely the route through which serotonin (5-HT) activates the HPA axis and triggers the stress response that may increase the enzymes responsible for increasing levels of DHT in the scalp.

If one has bumpy gut health, serotonin in the blood is increased. This may fuel the pathway that commonly causes MPB via the route I explained above.

Check this:

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/27/26/6956.short


I can link to more if you wish

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agomelatine

[quote]
Agomelatine is a melatonergic agonist (MT1 (Ki=0.10nM±0.01nM) and MT2 receptors (Ki=0.12nM±0.02nM)) and 5-HT2C antagonist (IC50=270nM; pKi=6.15±0.04).
[/quote]

I have to say though I'm not sure how to interpret the strengths yet...

Anyway erm, yes it could be the melatonin agonism, but it could also be the 5-HT2C antagonism. Or it could be a bit of both

Hoppi

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 11/28/2013 04:53 AM
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